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M won't wind up- strange troubles

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the Unforgiven

07-06-2006 20:50:07




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Saw an M today that the neighbors did a valve and ring job on. When they fired it up, it would not respond to the throttle and needs a lot of choke to keep running. They thought the governor linkage was goofed-up so they unhooked it so you can run the throttle shaft with your finger, no difference, you open it wide open and the engine doesn't notice, it just keeps idling, and sounds good. Something screwed up bad in the carb, right? They drove a good M up to the shop. pulled the carb off, and put it on the tractor in question, and it runs the same, starts right up, nice idle, open the throttle by hand and nothing, no sputter, no cough, no rev-up, just smooth idle. Can't find any vacuum leaks. Gasoline manifold looks good. Any ideas? Thanks, Bill

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the Unforgiven

07-07-2006 11:57:07




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 Solved!!! in reply to the Unforgiven, 07-06-2006 20:50:07  
Well, I just got the call, they found a cloth rag packed in the manifold. Put it back together and it sings it's sweet song of horsepower just as it should. Thanks everybody, Bill



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RustyFarmall

07-07-2006 13:46:36




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 Re: Solved!!! in reply to the Unforgiven, 07-07-2006 11:57:07  
Glad to hear it. Strange things do happen. Had the head off of a super M several years ago, put it all back together except for the manifold. Went back to it the next morning to install the manifold, and found that the mice had been really busy all night long. There were two bags of soybean seed stored in the shop, the mice got into them, and relocated all they could into the intake and exhaust ports of the head.

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RustyFarmall

07-07-2006 10:25:15




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 Re: M won't wind up- strange troubles in reply to the Unforgiven, 07-06-2006 20:50:07  
How long was the engine apart? The mud daubers are extremely busy right now. They could probably fill that intake tube completely full of mud in a half day or less.



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the Unforgiven

07-07-2006 11:10:16




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 Re: M won't wind up- strange troubles in reply to RustyFarmall, 07-07-2006 10:25:15  
Hey Rusty, I did not even consider a wasp nest, but this shop is so nice and clean that it makes my skin crawl, I doubt that insects are allowed inside. But that's not to say the manifold didn't set outside for awhile. When I left last night the next plan of action was to pull the manifold off, so hopefully we will find the problem there.



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Homard

07-07-2006 10:22:59




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 Re: M won't wind up- strange troubles in reply to the Unforgiven, 07-06-2006 20:50:07  
Was the questionable carb attached to the "good M"? How did it run (with and without gov attached)? If correct throttle control was acheived, then the questionable carb has been ruled out as part of the problem.

Since it is not coughing or back firing (rough running), it does not sound like a valve issue (as stated in a post earlier). The only thing left is between the carb and the valves.... manifold issue

When the problem is determined, please inform what was the problem.

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Ron in Nebr

07-07-2006 10:20:14




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 Re: M won't wind up- strange troubles in reply to the Unforgiven, 07-06-2006 20:50:07  
From reading the other posts, it sure sounds like it's time to pull the manifold off and double-check the whole intake tract for obstructions- rag or something stuffed in there, gasket somehow covering most of the ports on the head....obviously she's only getting enough air to idle.

Be sure and post back when it gets figured out!



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ChadS

07-07-2006 08:35:40




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 Re: M won't wind up- strange troubles in reply to the Unforgiven, 07-06-2006 20:50:07  
Let me see if I understand this,,,,, Your running no governor,, and when you open the throttle plate, by hand,,, nothing happens??? Is the plate jammed stuck shut? Does it sound like its taking a huge breath when you open the throttle, and fall off? If you got fuel from the tank to the bowl, you may need to rejet the carb bowl larger to give it more fuel,,, Chad



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the Unforgiven

07-07-2006 10:14:14




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 Re: M won't wind up- strange troubles in reply to ChadS, 07-07-2006 08:35:40  
Yeah, you got it right Chad. I know it doesn't sound right, but I fooled with it for most of an hour, and that is exactly what is happening. The shaft and plate are loose as a goose. AND the carb on it now came off a good running tractor and went on this one about two minutes later, runs exactly the same as the original carb. But it does not make a lot of intake noise, if you close it down to idle you can hear it up in the carb just a little, it seems awful quiet to me. That's why I am wondering if someone didn't give them a hand and shoved a rag or something up in the downtube of the manifold. Seems like if one gasket or port was restricted it would run rough on that side, but it idles as smooth as silk, regardless of throttle plate position. And the guys working on it are competant mechanics, many stunning, although green, full restorations have rolled out of this shop, so it's not like they have never seen a tractor before. I have been watching this site pretty close this morning and I have to go to work in a couple hours, but I am going to try to get back tonight to see if there is any progress. It is one of the silliest things I ever saw, the way it runs, and I have seen some pretty wacky stuff. I will post the results when it is corrected, but the thing has me stumped.

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RustyFarmall

07-07-2006 10:22:27




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 Re: M won't wind up- strange troubles in reply to the Unforgiven, 07-07-2006 10:14:14  
I've been following this thread and it just didn't make any sense to me until you mentioned the possibility of a rag stuffed up into the intake. I think you may have just nailed it. Might want to completely remove the manifold and have a look, just to be sure none of that rag has found its way into the intake ports.



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ChadS

07-07-2006 11:33:16




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 Re: M won't wind up- strange troubles in reply to RustyFarmall, 07-07-2006 10:22:27  
Kinda what it sounds like to me too,,, Chads



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Delbert

07-07-2006 06:21:12




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 Re: M won't wind up- strange troubles in reply to the Unforgiven, 07-06-2006 20:50:07  
Check govenor spring take the cover off think you will find the spring is broken.



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the Unforgiven

07-07-2006 06:32:53




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 Re: M won't wind up- strange troubles in reply to Delbert, 07-07-2006 06:21:12  
The governor is completly unhooked from the carb so you can run the throttle plate shaft with your finger, it is not a case of the throttle plate position not changing, the engine will not respond when the throttle plate position is changed.



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Janicholson

07-07-2006 06:05:10




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 Re: M won't wind up- strange troubles in reply to the Unforgiven, 07-06-2006 20:50:07  
The carb is disconnected from the governor at the link where the governor tube attaches to the top/front of the carb. Take the carb off and you will see a linkage on the shaft that must be aligned and indexed into the throttle shaft lever. It is a delicate and important part of putting the carb on, and easy to have wrong. (and not visible from the out side). The idle Mixture screw probably needs to be richened to make it idle W/O choke. (I think in is richer on this carb). JimN

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the Unforgiven

07-07-2006 06:15:40




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 Re: M won't wind up- strange troubles in reply to Janicholson, 07-07-2006 06:05:10  
That is the first thing I thought of when they called, but they checked that couple times already, and now it has the linkage tube removed so you have full manual control of the throttle plate with your fingers, and position of the throttle plate makes NO difference to the engine, just smooth idle from wide open all the way to idle.



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the Unforgiven

07-07-2006 05:56:31




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 Re: M won't wind up- strange troubles in reply to the Unforgiven, 07-06-2006 20:50:07  
The linkage is unhooked right at the carb, fuel flow is good. Could not find a leak at the gasket and it looks right from the outside anyway. Won't suck ether through the gasket. I am starting to suspect a rag stuffed up in the manifold. The thing sounds real nice idling. And if it had a fuel supply or gasket problem it should fall on it's face when you open it up or sputter or backfire or miss or die or something, but it just idles away, unperturbed. I don't think they fooled with the original carb, and the carb off of the runner was untouched. To make matters more frustrating, this tractor ran good, just tired, when it ran into the shop a couple weeks ago.

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John M

07-07-2006 03:38:14




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 Re: M won't wind up- strange troubles in reply to the Unforgiven, 07-06-2006 20:50:07  
So just exactly where are they taking the linkage loose at? Sounds to me like the original problem was they didnt put the carb back on right, its hung up at a low idle setting and needs choking to keep it running there because the carb isnt adjusted right.



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souNdguy

07-06-2006 21:41:04




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 Re: M won't wind up- strange troubles in reply to the Unforgiven, 07-06-2006 20:50:07  
Have they checke dthe fuel flow rate from the line and compaired it to the 'good' one?

Soundguy



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Dave BN

07-06-2006 23:02:05




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 Re: M won't wind up- strange troubles in reply to souNdguy, 07-06-2006 21:41:04  
I wonder if soething is wrong with the manifold gasket. It might be leaking or obstructed. Ask if they remember what it looked like when they installed it. Dave.



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