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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Lets talk about a 560D

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ChadS

07-10-2006 09:13:39




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Later model, 282, roosa master pump. Probably never been apart, shows 2000hrs on a working original tach,, Nice original tractor,, A fella bought it, and brought it over,, says it has a miss,, then comes out of it when it warmed up, but it smokes like chimminy. Id say it sat for a while,, and then fired back up and the weaker links in the fuel system are now showing signs of wear. Engine oil is still oil,, not thinned by Diesil fuel,,, Around the exhaust ports, its showing some oily residue, not has been leaking, but id say its just started doing this. it doesnt knock,, starts OK,, it smokes blue fuel smoke out, not oil, fuel,, What am I looking at here??? injectors are probably for sure worn,, are there any injectors out there that would go right in and be bigger than stock,, not much,, just a little,, Rossa Master pump on it,, dry as a bone on the outside,, no visable leakage, or oil leaks,, Should it be just as well rebuilt, or trust the hour meter and make belive its possible to be OK,,,, Is there a bigger pump that works directly in its place that is better? I knkow where there is a lot of IH combines sitting with Diesils in em,, lots of parts from 715's up to 915's to some 1460's and id like to see whats possible to go junk yard shopping for a little better equipment and not spend alot doing it. Any sugestions?? I already bout know what to expect on what it costs to rebuild to new,, if I can,, save him some $$$ and have some fun. The 560 looks in good shape, quiet, tranny is quiet, pto is good, TA is good, Its new owner just wants to play a little bit with it on Saturday's,,, IH ladies N gents,, this guy,, used to be a die hard deere man,,, and somehow.. got converted from having alot of green in the barn,, to now alot of red in its place. He really likes this 560 for some reason,, So,,, How bout a "radio check" and whats the 20 on how to make a 560 into something he would really like! Junkyard shoppin now,, lets not get to high tech,, naturally aspirated,, just a little over stock rpm's 20% if that. Show this converted deereman why IH's are,,, well,, the way they are,,, simply the best!! Redder the better,, ChadS

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Hugh MacKay

07-12-2006 03:36:25




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 Re: Lets talk about a 560D in reply to ChadS, 07-10-2006 09:13:39  
Chad: Forget it and run it, give it some good hard exercise. I ran two 282 diesels a total of 25,000 hours. I rarely started those tractors in winter and I went throught the exact same thing as your going through every spring. I rebuilt each engine once as well as each injection pump and injectors once, during the 25,000 hours.

A 282 will let you know if you have injection problems, it just wont start. This is probably one of the items that most amazed me since coming to YT, that being how quick most folks are to try and fix something that aint broke.

These tractors especially were never engineered to sit around unused. I can't believe the numbers of 60s and 70s tractors across this continant with less than 5,000 hours on them. In my day a tractor was a poor investment unless you were working it at least 500 hours per year and preferably 1,000. I have a friend in forestry, he doesn't need another machine, unless each current machine is clocking 3,000 hours per year. Now, I do realize your never going to do 3,000 per year, per tractor, farming. However, it is not uncommon for disels clocking big hours like this to run 20,000 hours between rebuilds.

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Michael Soldan

07-10-2006 17:04:05




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 Re: Lets talk about a 560D in reply to ChadS, 07-10-2006 09:13:39  
Chad I might get beat up here but these are my thoughts about tractors. A friend of mine who was an Allis dealer for 40 years says to put a quart of automatic transmission fluid into the fuel. This does two things. The ATF has an affinity for moisture so it will clean any moisture out of the fuel system. It will also lube the pump. Now I have had success with injector cleaner for diesels. Injectors may be slobering fuel into the cylinder at start up and when the engine reaches operating temp it may seem to run reasonably well,but it is still not misting the fuel. Injector cleaner will clean up the tips of the injector and I have had good luck using it, making a hard starting tractor I have into a tractor that starts very quickly. I also mix a quart of oil in the diesel fuel when I am going to be doing some hard lugging, especially in cold weather. I agree with everyone that a good days work will clean up some problems. I could see a change in my tractor after three or four tanks of fuel with injector cleaner in it. This product is cheaper than pulling the injectors and for less than $10 its worth a try before you get into replacing injectors. I am not suggesting that injector replacement isn't necessary but you could get lucky and correct your problem very cheaply. The ATF won't hurt anything except the moisture in you fuel system. This has been my experience and I swear by injector cleaner. I use it in both diesels I own, even convinced the neighbours to use it in their green 1830 tractors, which now start easier. None of my remedies can harm anything and I figure if an Allis dealer suggests it it can't be wrong. My opinion weighs no more than anyone else's but it works for me..best of luck bringing the beast out of it...Mike in Exeter Ontario

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the tractor vet

07-10-2006 16:17:50




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 Re: Lets talk about a 560D in reply to ChadS, 07-10-2006 09:13:39  
Oh yea that cold miss could be a cracked precup . Also run the valves on her and sometimes running the intake will give ya a bit more if ya run them a littel tighter and the exhaust a littel looser. Ya don't have to go looken to spend bucks to get a bit more out of her just some fine line tweeken. Also run a good dose of Lucas fuel tratment thru it while worken the snot out of her she was made to work so work her and make sure that the Stats is working as the run much better when Hot like around 195-200. One of the old tricks that i use to do while at the pulls was cover the rad with a feed sack to get her hot as i had the fuel turned up[ on my old 450D and she was tough to beat up to the 10500 class.

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the tractor vet

07-10-2006 16:03:18




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 Re: Lets talk about a 560D in reply to ChadS, 07-10-2006 09:13:39  
Chad if memory serves me Get into the injectors and make them into the ones used in a 706 282 as the breaking pressure is higher as for the pump that is on it open the load screw a littel and give her a 1/4 to 1/2 turn on the fuel bump the timeing up about 5 degrees so she has a littel rattel . If ya have a dyno do the tweeken on it ya can get them turnen up around the 80-85 hp with out tomuch problems and maybe a shade more with out hurten her run the RPM up to the 706 spec plus 10% And take two aspern and give me a call in the morning.

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Lance R.

07-10-2006 13:52:54




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 Re: Lets talk about a 560D in reply to ChadS, 07-10-2006 09:13:39  
I just talked to midwest injector service about rebilding my other 560D injector pump. He said, "if the head is OK it should only cost about $300 to do the pump with a maximum of $500 in the worst case senerio." He can also rebuild the injectors for about $35 per injector. I have not modified my 560 and have never needed more in any tractor pull. I only pull in 1st gear and never have to use the TA in the 8500 pound class. You'll run out of traction and not power. It's better balanced than 4010 & 4020 John Deeres. I've never been beatened by a green tractor. The only one that came close was a 730D.(2")

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ejr-IA.

07-10-2006 10:55:02




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 Re: Lets talk about a 560D in reply to ChadS, 07-10-2006 09:13:39  
The difference is in what they call the head on the pump the 3 last digits in the pump tells its size 35,37,39 which means 350,370,390 common pumps on IH with Roosa pumps.A 560 that's na won't keep up with a 806.A 560 with turbo and pump turned up can make a 100hp and more,but wont live along time too much heat burns valves and glow plugs and cracks heads.



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the tractor vet

07-10-2006 16:09:16




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 Re: Lets talk about a 560D in reply to ejr-IA., 07-10-2006 10:55:02  
EJ . way back many moons ago we did a bit of tweekn them old gals . But that was when ya had fun playen . Use to be a running battel between one of my buddys with his 560D against my 450 D No matter what he did the old 450 got him every time by 25-50 feet and there was no skeeter around when i was done.



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Jimmy King

07-10-2006 10:33:22




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 Re: Lets talk about a 560D in reply to ChadS, 07-10-2006 09:13:39  
If it only misses on stsrt up it may have done that since it was brand new. I have a 460D it has never started on more than 4 cylinders. About 10 hrs on a hard pull will do it more good than any thing. Once we had the pump and injecters rebuild, and it still only started on 4. The only difference on the two engines is the stroke.



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Allan In NE

07-10-2006 09:51:22




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 Re: Lets talk about a 560D in reply to ChadS, 07-10-2006 09:13:39  
I'm with Andy on this one.

Take it out and make it work for a week. Bet she straightens right out.

They weren't made to just set, to putz around the lawn with a little rotary mower or go beer guzzlin' down at the local tractor pull. They were designed to work and work hard.

Just my opinion,

Allan



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ChadS

07-10-2006 10:02:07




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 Re: Lets talk about a 560D in reply to Allan In NE, 07-10-2006 09:51:22  
Its a plow day special. If it cant be used on the farm, its not worth a thing. That's always been my opinion. Already has been worked for a long time,, plowed up 35 acres this spring, and he says it indeed got better, but still smoked, pushing fuel out the exhaust. He is not trying to plow in 4th gear with a 6 bottom plow,, just make it run better, with a little more power to it,, still be used to work, or play,,, either way,, it cant continue to do what its doing and be good,, I would not see anything wrong with being up close to the 806D specs,, that would be alone more than enough for what is intended,, not hog wild,, but a fun, relable tractor. Why dont these things start up worth a darn????? Glow plugs all work,,, but geesh!! Chad

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dej(JED)

07-10-2006 09:36:05




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 Re: Lets talk about a 560D in reply to ChadS, 07-10-2006 09:13:39  
I have a 560 D that is basically doing the same thing. It has some smoke at start up, but it clears out for the most part. It is pushing fuel out the exhaust stack though. Any ideas would be appreciated.



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ejr-IA.

07-10-2006 09:31:36




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 Re: Lets talk about a 560D in reply to ChadS, 07-10-2006 09:13:39  
The later 656 or early 706 or 715 301 used what they called Midget inj.noz are the better ones for more fuel.A pump off a 806 will go right on and bring the governed speed up to 2400 or a 715 301 is higher yet maybe 2800 ,any way that is what I have on my 560 it will run 3000 easy and mines turboed.Head gasketts can beome a problem then.



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ChadS

07-10-2006 10:08:05




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 Re: Lets talk about a 560D in reply to ejr-IA., 07-10-2006 09:31:36  
Thats what i was wondering,, are the pumps the same, or are they bigger, or just turned up some more than what the 560 is? could a 560 N/A run like a 806?



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Andy Martin

07-10-2006 09:20:48




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 Re: Lets talk about a 560D in reply to ChadS, 07-10-2006 09:13:39  
I'd take it out and work it good and hard for several hours (days) and see whether the miss and smoke clear up. They might.



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