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Farmall 340 Not Starting

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Larry Hardesty

07-20-2006 18:18:02




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When to start up my Farmall 340 this evening. Started right up and ran about three or four minutes and then died suddently. No sputtering or anything so does not seem like a gas problem. Died just like I had shut off the switch. Checked and looks like no electricity to spark plug. Did not see any loose wires. Distributor wire is plugged in. Engine turns over fine with plenty of spin but just never acts like it gets any spark. Any suggestions as what is wrong and/or how I might trace it down? Any help appreciated.

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Jrry

07-23-2006 04:48:45




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 Re: Farmall 340 Not Starting in reply to Larry Hardesty, 07-20-2006 18:18:02  
Make sure the rotor is turning. The rotor gear could have strippied.



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El Toro

07-21-2006 05:31:26




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 Re: Farmall 340 Not Starting in reply to Larry Hardesty, 07-20-2006 18:18:02  
Make sure you have battery voltage at the coil with the ignition switch on. If you have voltage there, check the gap on your points and clean them. If they are pitted replace them and the condenser. If you have voltage at the coil
snap those points open and closed a few times and see if have spark there. Hal



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Larry Hardesty

07-21-2006 05:45:21




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 Re: Farmall 340 Not Starting in reply to El Toro, 07-21-2006 05:31:26  
Hal, Thanks, The tractor had been getting hard to start. Turned over just fine. It is six volt and I had put larger battery cables on it. It got late last night so I will dig out my volt meter and try to trace down where the juice stops. My guess it is condenser. Funny that it fired right up and then ran a few minutes; died suddenly without a sputter and then not a sputter again when tried to start it. So I have ruled out gas problem and looking at electrical. Hope I am on the right track. I appreciate the response. thanks

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El Toro

07-22-2006 06:22:25




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 Re: Farmall 340 Not Starting in reply to Larry Hardesty, 07-21-2006 05:45:21  
Did you get your tractor started? Hal



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Larry Hardesty

07-22-2006 18:47:48




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 Re: Farmall 340 Not Starting in reply to El Toro, 07-22-2006 06:22:25  
I have not got it started yet. Replaced condenser and points. Points looked very pitted. However, that did not do it. I did what you suggested and cranked the starter with wire from coil disconnected from distribtor and near frame of tractor. Did not see any sparks. Probably bad coil. I passed on a coil when I got the points and condenser at Case-IH since it was $28. However, looks like I try that on Monday. Probably easier to take off and install than the points and condenser. Some little pieces hard to take off and put back on, particularly with loader frame in the way. Thanks

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El Toro

07-23-2006 04:00:30




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 Re: Farmall 340 Not Starting in reply to Larry Hardesty, 07-22-2006 18:47:48  
That coil should be available from your NAPA store too. Hal



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El Toro

07-23-2006 03:58:52




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 Re: Farmall 340 Not Starting in reply to Larry Hardesty, 07-22-2006 18:47:48  
Make sure you are getting battery voltage at the coil. Use a test lite or volt meter. If there's no voltage at coil; check for voltage at ignition switch. You need this voltage to coil. If there's no voltage at switch check the feed wire to the switch. Some of these tractors this is fed from the small terminal on the starter solenoid. It has voltage on this terminal all the time. The other small terminal will have an s
on it. It only has voltage when you attempt to crank the engine. Hal

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Larry Hardesty

07-23-2006 05:08:10




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 Re: Farmall 340 Not Starting in reply to El Toro, 07-23-2006 03:58:52  
Yes, it looks, according to my tester,like I am getting the six volts or so to the coil when the switch is turned on. However, I am not gettting any spark from the coil to the distributor when I turn over the tractor trying to start it. Seems like the next step is replacing the coil. I may try the price of NAPA coil. Thanks



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El Toro

07-23-2006 05:46:22




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 Re: Farmall 340 Not Starting in reply to Larry Hardesty, 07-23-2006 05:08:10  
Before you purchase a coil take a cotton swab and dip it in alcohol and clean those points. Even if they're new they may have a film of oil on them. Make sure they're set at .020". After you clean the points turn the ignition switch on and with the points closed snap them open and closed a few times and look for spark at the points. If you have spark then, your tractor should start. Hal



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Larry Hardesty

07-23-2006 20:14:27




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 Re: Farmall 340 Not Starting in reply to El Toro, 07-23-2006 05:46:22  
Hal, Did the cotton swab thing and then tried to start the tractor. Waited until evening and in the dark I could not see any spark. Also tried the wire coming out of the coil near the frame and did not see any spark. I assume a bad coil. Probably will get a new one tomorrow.

Thanks

Larry



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El Toro

07-24-2006 04:04:48




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 Re: Farmall 340 Not Starting in reply to Larry Hardesty, 07-23-2006 20:14:27  
Check the small wire from the coil to the distributor for continuity and the large wire from the coil to the distributor. They may have a break. Hal PS: See if have voltage at the points with the ignition switch on. No voltage check the wires.



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Larry Hardesty

07-24-2006 10:06:40




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 Re: Farmall 340 Not Starting in reply to El Toro, 07-24-2006 04:04:48  
Hal, With the switch on there is juice from the coil to the distributor via the small wire. There is juice at the points also. However, I put a new large wire on from the coil to the distributor and still no juice. I think I need to head to town to get a new coil.

Thanks

Larry



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El Toro

07-24-2006 10:50:37




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 Re: Farmall 340 Not Starting in reply to Larry Hardesty, 07-24-2006 10:06:40  
That's probably the problem. Hal



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Larry Hardesty

07-24-2006 19:55:54




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 Re: Farmall 340 Not Starting in reply to El Toro, 07-24-2006 10:50:37  
Hal, Well, I put the coil on. I get juice from negative to positive terminals on the coil when the switch is on. I had that with the old coil.

However, I am still not getting juice out of the coil. Even tried a new cable from the coil to the distributor. I cranked the tractor with the cable end near the frame...no spark.

Now the directions say for this coil to "use present reistance unit." I do not see a resistance unit. Is this the problem now?

There is a single wire from the generator to the coil. However the directions with the coil show a black and a white cable with a black cable to one end of the resistance unit and then a write wire connecting to the other end going back and connecting to the positive terminal, along with with a white cable from the generator. Probably not all clear.

Sorry to be a bother, but this has me stumped.

Larry

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Larry Hardesty

07-24-2006 20:11:47




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 Re: Farmall 340 Not Starting in reply to Larry Hardesty, 07-24-2006 19:55:54  
Hall, Read directions again and said "for 6-cylinder engines, use present reisstance unit." I misread and thought for 6 volt. Well, my 340 is 4 cylinder. Don't understand why I would need resistance unit on a 12 volt coil on a 6 volt tractor.

Well, color me confused!!

Larry



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El Toro

07-25-2006 04:08:20




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 Re: Farmall 340 Not Starting in reply to Larry Hardesty, 07-24-2006 20:11:47  
If your battery is 6 volts you do not need a 12 volt coil. You need a 12 volt coil if your battery is 12 volts or you would need a ballast resistor if you are using a 6 volt coil when using a 12 volt battery. These are used to drop the voltage to 6 volts so your points don't burn up.

Is your battery 6 volts? If it is it should be
+ positive grounded and your small terminal on the
coil with + positive sign should be wire to your
distributor. Make sure the rotor is clean and doesn't have any carbon on it. Check those wires
at the points and make sure they're not touching
the distributor body. This would ground out the points. Where are you located? Hal

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Larry Hardesty

07-25-2006 05:28:57




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 Re: Farmall 340 Not Starting in reply to El Toro, 07-25-2006 04:08:20  
Hal, Tractor is 6 volt with positive ground. I have large welding cables for ground and to run to starter and it cranks over pretty well. I will go through and check wiring again. Nothing has been changed around. I get juice between positive and negative poles on the coil. I checked this morning and no juice coming out of coil with just switched turned on. I suppose it would fry my tester if I cranked it over and juice did come out of the coil. However, no spark when cranking it over and putting the large wire coming out of coil near frame. The original points were originally pretty pitted and I put in new points and condenser. I will check the gap again today. I tried to set it a .020. Night before last when I did I did nto see any spark at the points so I put on a new coil yesterday. I was working last night as it was getting dark so I could see the spark if there was any..and no spark. Got to be something simple like a ground, so I will go through the wiring. I am near Kearney, Nebraska. Thanks.

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El Toro

07-25-2006 07:19:50




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 Re: Farmall 340 Not Starting in reply to Larry Hardesty, 07-25-2006 05:28:57  
If you have voltage at the points with the switch on, you should see spark from the points if you snap them open and closed a few times. I would install another condenser to see if that's the problem. Hal



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Larry Hardesty

07-25-2006 19:19:40




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 Re: Farmall 340 Not Starting in reply to El Toro, 07-25-2006 07:19:50  
Hal, Well ths is getting to me. I just spent another 90 minutes working with it. I get voltage to the new coil. In fact, it seems I get a pretty good spark when I run a wire across from positive to negative on the coil and just touch it.

I have an IH Blue Ribbon Manual on the electrical for the 340, 460, and 560. One of things it suggests is disconnecting the wires from the coil and connecting jumper cables from the battery and see if I get a spark from on to the other (I assume to see if the electricity runs through the coil). Well, I did get a spark, but not nearly the spark running a wire from the positive to negative of the coil with the wires connected. Really not much different than from the old coil when I tried it with it. Should I be getting more of spark? Is it possible (would seem unlikely) to get a faulty new coil and is there a way to test a coil.

I looked through wiring, disconnected connections and cleaned them, etc. and etc., but could not find a short. Now it could be hidden in wiring. No sign of short in the distributor. Obviously it has to be something.

Any further ideas? I know, it is hard diagnose from a distance but thanks for your help.

Larry

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El Toro

07-26-2006 05:29:59




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 Re: Farmall 340 Not Starting in reply to Larry Hardesty, 07-25-2006 19:19:40  
How about sending me your email address? I have
a good book that explains how the conventional
ignition system works with points and and a coil. I can email you copies. Hal

Bompchomp@aol.com



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El Toro

07-26-2006 04:05:54




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 Re: Farmall 340 Not Starting in reply to Larry Hardesty, 07-25-2006 19:19:40  
I doubt if the new coil is the problem. Put that question back on the Farmall forum and I'm sure some of those with elecrical engineering degrees
have a procedure for checking coils.

This tractor is 6 volts with + grounded battery
and is the new coil 6 volts? Those points should
have spark when you snap them open and close with the ignition switch on. I would try another condenser. Hal

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Larry Hardesty

07-26-2006 05:41:17




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 Re: Farmall 340 Not Starting in reply to El Toro, 07-26-2006 04:05:54  
Hal, No doubt it is probably something simple when I find it, but if there is no spark from the coil to the distributor, how can it be the condenser. I replaced the condenser when I put in new points. I do appreciate all your help.

Larry



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El Toro

07-26-2006 17:14:43




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 Re: Farmall 340 Not Starting in reply to Larry Hardesty, 07-26-2006 05:41:17  
I see you had a lot of response on your forum question. Did you fid the trouble? Hal



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Larry Hardesty

07-26-2006 17:32:33




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 Re: Farmall 340 Not Starting in reply to El Toro, 07-26-2006 17:14:43  
Hal, Well, Bigdog of the Farmall Tractor listserve has helped me make some progress and figure out it is not the coil. I took the old coil and old condenser in Case-IH. The old condenser is bad, which probably was the start of the program. They could not test the old coil. I took it to local O'Reilly's Auto Parts place. The kid there tried but neither of us new much about testing a coil, but it looked good. When I got home Bigdog has recommended connecting a test light between the coil + terminal and a ground and cranking the tractor. If everything was working right, the light should go on and off as I cranked the tractor. It did not. My thinking now is I have a ground. I will take out the new coil I put in and test it and then put it back without twisting the wires as much. Anyway that is progress as of 7:30 p.m. today. Good new is new appears not to be the problem. Larry

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El Toro

07-26-2006 17:51:01




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 Re: Farmall 340 Not Starting in reply to Larry Hardesty, 07-26-2006 17:32:33  
If you're getting battery voltage at the points I don't think you have a ground problem. Why don't you use the procedure that Jim Nicksolson recommended using the condenser. Did this tractor ever run? Are you sure the rotor is turning when cranking the engine? Some of the tractor owners on the forum have found a sheared
woodruff key on the distributor gear. Hal
PS: If you have an auto machine shop that rebuilds alternators and generators they may be able to test your coil.

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Larry Hardesty

07-26-2006 21:05:31




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 Re: Farmall 340 Not Starting in reply to El Toro, 07-26-2006 17:51:01  
Hal, Got it done. I appreciate your help and Bigdog from the Farmall Tractor listserve. He helped me figure out it was not the new coil. I went into Case-IH and took the old coil and the old condenser. They checked the old condenser and it was bad. They could not check the coil but I went to a O'Reilly Auto parts and they checked it. The old coil seemed good. So the original problem was probably the old condenser.

I had started out thinking bad condenser and had gotten one last Friday from Case-IH. When that did not work, I then caught a coil from Case-IH on Monday. When that did not work, I was baffled.

Now I checked according to what Bigdog told me and my test light would not go out when it was connected between the + on the coil and the primary wire side of the distributor, which indicates it is a problem in the distributor. I thought I had a ground in there. I took the points out and the new condenser that I had gotten last Friday from Case-IH. I checked the condenser as they did at Case-IH and the new condenser was bad. I had gotten another one at Advance Auto today for $3+ just in case (versus the Case-IH price ..since they sell the condenser only with the points).

Well, next I put in the new condenser I got today and put everything back together. Turned over the tractor key and hit the starter (for about the millionth time since I started trying to trace this all down) and she fired right up.

Don't know why the new condenser from Case-IH was bad, and it would have been nice not to have purchased a coil. I noticed all are cheaper from TSC but don't know if the quality is different from Case-IH.

Anyway, nice sound to hear the tractor run again.

Thanks to everyone for all the help.

Larry H.

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El Toro

07-27-2006 03:55:44




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 Re: Farmall 340 Not Starting in reply to Larry Hardesty, 07-26-2006 21:05:31  
Glad you have it running. I have bought new points that were defective. The vehicle ran worse than with the old points. I think I mentioned condenser in one of my emails. Hal



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Larry Hardesty

07-27-2006 06:29:53




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 Re: Farmall 340 Not Starting in reply to El Toro, 07-27-2006 03:55:44  
Hal, Thanks, well I know how to test a condenser, I will do it before I put it on ...if I remember next time. Thanks for all the help.

Got about quarter inch of rain so will not be moving dirt this morning and then it supposed to be hot and humid this afternoon.

Larry



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El Toro

07-27-2006 07:28:25




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 Re: Farmall 340 Not Starting in reply to Larry Hardesty, 07-27-2006 06:29:53  
It's hot here in MD, the temp is suppose to hit the mid 90's. I tilled the garden this morning with my Troy-Bilt tiller. I put a new 10hp B&S engine on it last month and I painted it with PPG's 71310 single stage urethane paint back in May. I only gave $140.00 for the tiller, it was in sad shape mechanically. I replace the tines, oil seals and engine. I've had 30 of them over the years. I usually buy them when they won't start or need work. I dug potatoes about a week ago. I only planted a little over 4 lbs and I dug about 30 lbs. We've had a lot of rain this summer. We had 21 inches in June and 6 inches so far this month. Some of my tomato plants looked liked they may have drowned from so much rain. Some of the potatoes were rotten too and that's why I dug them. I'll send you a picture of the tiller. Happy tractoring. I know you're glad to get it running. Hal

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Larry Hardesty

07-24-2006 05:28:59




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 Re: Farmall 340 Not Starting in reply to El Toro, 07-24-2006 04:04:48  
Hal, Will do, thanks

Larry



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Larry Hardesty

07-23-2006 06:10:08




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 Re: Farmall 340 Not Starting in reply to El Toro, 07-23-2006 05:46:22  
Hal, Will do, Thanks

Larry



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El Toro

07-21-2006 06:09:53




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 Re: Farmall 340 Not Starting in reply to Larry Hardesty, 07-21-2006 05:45:21  
Make sure that rotor in your distributor is clean.
Pull the coil wire from the distr. cap and hold it within 1/8-1/4" of good ground while someone attempts to start tractor with the ignition switch on. Should have a hot blue fire. Hal



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