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ballast or resistor or both?

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e-manhunt

07-24-2006 14:56:28




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I'm up to my ears with electric stuff on my M and trying to decipher old forum topics; I've seen the term ballast and resistor used -- are these different words for the same thing? My M is a 12 volt conversion and I'm getting ready to change out the coil as I try to track down the electrical problem.




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e-manhunt

07-25-2006 10:02:06




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 thanks in reply to e-manhunt, 07-24-2006 14:56:28  
Thank you, guys. I really appreciate the help I get in this forum. E.



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John T

07-24-2006 20:05:11




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 Re: ballast or resistor or both? in reply to e-manhunt, 07-24-2006 14:56:28  
e, Most likely when you see the terms Ballast and Resistor used on these boards, it means the same thing. Heres the real deal: When one converts from 6 to 12 volt and wants to still use the old 6 volt coil, you must EITHER add an external series voltage dropping (12 to 6) Ballast Resistor or else change to a true full 12 volt rated (some call internally ballasted) coil or else the coil runs too much current n overheats plus the points burn up quickly. Of course, if the series ballast becomes bad and an open circuit, theres no voltage at the coils input and no coil current and no spark. While a bad coil can definitely be the cause of no spark, I suspect other things like the points or condensor or a bad ballast (if it has one) or a bad ignition switch or wiring before the coil. To save myself time heres a detailed troubleshooting procedure for no spark on a coil ignition system although its likely wayyyyy more then you need. Theres NO DIFFERENCE in the points n condensor used regardless if at 6 or 12 volts as the voltage withstand rating of either is wayyyyy yy more then 6 or 12 volts anyway. The points are a mechanical switching device and its the amount of current they can switch thats critical NOT the voltage across them so long as they are able to withstand the max voltage which is wayyyyy y more then 6 or 12 volts anyway.


TROUBLESHOOTING A BATTERY POWERED EXTERNAL COIL TYPE IGNITION SYSTEM:

PRELIMINARY CHECKS:

(A) To see if it happens to be a cap n rotor problem and to see if at least the coil is firing, remove the coil wire from the distributor (leave coil end intact) and place its bare end to within 1/8 inch from tractor iron, turn her on n crank her over, and see if she jumps that gap with a good visible blue spark????? If so but the plug wire ends (from wire end to 1/8 inch to frame) or the plugs themselves don’t fire, its a cap n rotor or plug wire problem. If the coil wire isnt even sparking, see below.

(B) Next open the cap and see that the points are gapped correct and indeed opening and closing as the engine is cranked and the distributor shaft rotates and MAKE SURE THEY ARE NOT BURNED OR PITTED OR CARBONED UP BADLY !!!!! !!!!! If so, running a point file between them to clean them up might make her run again HOWEVER that’s only a temporary cure, so if that cleaning makes her spark, INSTALL N GAP NEW POINTS. In the event they appear good but only gray oxide coated, non abrasively clean/buff/polish them using say a dollar bill or shop cloth etc. and see what happens.

MORE TROUBLESHOOTING IF ALL THE ABOVE STILL FAILS TO MAKE HER SPARK

1) THE VERY FIRST THING YOU GOTTA HAVE is voltage to be present on the coils high supply (NOT to distributor) terminal when you turn the Ignition switch ON. If not she cant ever fire, but in the event the ignition switch or circuit/wire down to the coil or any Ballast Resistor is bad or open, you can HOT WIRE it by jumping a hot ungrounded battery voltage source to the coils high input supply (NOT to distributor) side n see if she runs then???? If she fires hot wired, you could have a bad ignition switch ((That can happen, when Ignition is on, the switches IGN terminal must turn hot)),,,,, ,or an open Ballast (if it has one) or a bad/open wire from switch to coil.

If the switch is good, if you turn the ignition switch on and place a test lamp on the coils high (NOT to distributor) terminal SHE MUST LIGHT UP. If not again, look for an open Ballast Resistor (if it has one, it should read around 1.25 to 2 ohms across its terminals) or bad/open wires from the switches IGN output down to the Ballast (if it has one) and distributor.

2a) When the Ignition switch is turned on, voltage should appear on the coils high input side. That would be 6 volts on a straight 6 volt system or 12 volts on a 12 volt non external ballasted system, or around 6 volts on a 12 volt system that used a 6 volt coil plus an external Ballast Resistor and the coil is good and the points are closed and they and ALL wiring is good.

2b) To insure the coils low voltage primary winding is not bad/open, use an ohmmeter and measure its DC resistance between its lil + and -terminals. If its an open circuit (no continuity) its bad/open and will NOT work. It should measure around 1.25 to 2 ohms or so if its a 6 volt coil and maybe 2.5 to 3.5 if its a 12 volt internally ballasted coil. NOTE CAUTION have all leads and any voltage source DISCONNECTED FROM the coil for this simple primary winding continuity test. 3) Next, place your voltmeter or test lamp over on the coils other low to distributor terminal side, turn her on and crank the engine over.

4) A test lamp there should flash ON (when points are open) and OFF (when points are closed) as the engine is cranked slowly.

5a) If the lamp never comes on there, the coils primary is bad/open,,,,, ,,,,or the points are never opening,,,,, ,,,or theres a shorted/bad condensor (remove its lead to points and see if lamp comes on, if so, bad shorted condensor or its wiring),,,,, ,,or the points wire is shorted,,,,, ,,or the distributors side pass thru stud is grounded (use ohm meter to test that),,,,, ,,,or the points may have a shorted spring.

5b) If the lamp never goes off as engines cranked, the points are not closing or are bad,,,,, ,,or the wire or circuit is missing from the distributor to the points,,,,,or the distributors not well grounded to the tractor.

She cant fire the coil unless its low side is getting a conductive ground return path via closed points and then the circuit is open when the points open.

Be sure the condensor or its wiring is NOT shorted out and see if the lite comes on (when points open) with the condensor disconnected. If removing the condensor makes her spark, replace the condensor.

SUMMARY

Be sure the points are closing fully and open on high cam and ARE NOT BURNED OR PITTED OR CARBONED UP BADLY,,,,, ,theres voltage present on distributors high side at all times when ignitions on (or its a bad switch or open ballast or bad wiring to col),,,,, ,voltage on coils low side flashes on and off as distributor is cranked,,,,, ,,,condensors not bad/shorted,,,,, ,,no shorts in wires to points and no shorts in pass thru side out distributor stud,,,,, ,,coil has continuituy.

You may luck out n just need a new set of points. If the coil wire fires (see above) and the plug wire ends to 1/8 from frame but NOT the plugs, they are baddddd ddddd . Check them BOTH.

Good Luck n God Bless, post back any questions and your findings and any questions.

John T Nordhoff in Indiana, retired electrical engineer who usually lurks over on the Mother Deere boards versus over here on the “dark side”.

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texp

07-24-2006 19:49:35




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 Re: ballast or resistor or both? in reply to e-manhunt, 07-24-2006 14:56:28  
What kind of alternator? If it is a single-wire GM Delco, there is a diode available that plugs into the rear SIDE of the altrnator, keeps from getting a back circuit which might drain the battery when the tractor is not running.
As for a 6 - to - 12 conversion, Inless you replace the coil - and maybe the points and condenser with parts that are designed for 12 volts, you are running the risk of burning them out prematurally. If you place a ballast resister in line with the wire that goes from the switch to the coil, you will effectively be running the engine on 6 volts and the rest of the tractor - mainly lights - on 12 volts. SOME tractors have a wire from the starter solenoid to the coil, giving it an extra boost when starting.
Hope this helps!
Tex

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arod

07-24-2006 15:15:48




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 Re: ballast or resistor or both? in reply to e-manhunt, 07-24-2006 14:56:28  
commonly referred to as a "ballast resistor" if I am correct.

I have converted my M to 12 volt.

this is the NAPA porcelein resistor between the coil and the distributor.

there is ALSO an external regulator to put in line, should you not have an alternator with an internal one. this goes between the ignition swith and the F terminal on the alternator, with a dual connection also on the resistor input, doubling up with the input from the coil. I do believe.

Has been a few years. Hope this helps.

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RustyFarmall

07-24-2006 15:12:48




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 Re: ballast or resistor or both? in reply to e-manhunt, 07-24-2006 14:56:28  
Your assumption is correct. I think the correct term might be "ballast resistor".



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RustyFarmall

07-24-2006 15:16:22




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 Re: ballast or resistor or both? in reply to RustyFarmall, 07-24-2006 15:12:48  
Have you seen these? Somewhere on that page is exactly the wiring diagram you need. I think the first photo is an index.



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e-manhunt

07-25-2006 15:02:29




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 Re: ballast or resistor or both? in reply to RustyFarmall, 07-24-2006 15:16:22  
yes, I've seen these and used them to figure out some of my wiring early on. I can't get spark to my plugs and I start reading all the archived topics trying to figure out the problem -- then my head just started spinning like a top, especially when guys say "ballast' in one sentence and then refer to it as a "resistor" in the next. I've not had any formal mechanical training, so i learn as I go. until now I haven't had to think about ballast resistors. but, I am learning!

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