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International 584 advise needed

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Rick Bright

08-13-2006 12:49:22

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I am looking at a 584 International with a cab and a almost new Allied 495 loader with bucket and bale forks. I need something to handle round bales for my horses and bush hog my 50 acres with. I have a couple of questions I hope someone can help me with. The tractor seems in good condition. I ran it for about an hour this morning, picked up a round bale, moved it around, all gears work and sound good, picked the round bale up pretty high, parked the tractor on a dusty area, shut the tractor off and watched for a while. No leaks, the loader did not bleed off. No smoke, no blowby, hour meter not working with a little over 3000 hours showing. A few things concern me, one the parking brake does not work, I have read in past posts this can be bad news. Two, when I shut the tractor off with the PTO engaged I can hand turn the PTO shaft counterclockwise about 1/2 turn. Also I tried down pressure on the loader, I thought it would pick up the front of the tractor, the loader easily picked up the round bale of hay but did not have enough down pressure to pick the front of the tractor up. It would take some weight off but not pick it up. Is this normal??? Would these issues be a deal killer?? The tractor also has the British charging system. Lucas I believe. The guy who owns it got it with a farm he bought, I know him to be an honest guy he said he had it checked out by a ex International mechanic. He is asking $11,000... I know the Allied loader cost about $5,000 and this one is almmost new. I think I can get him down a couple of thousand. Sorry for the long post, I am hoping someone with experience with these tractors can give me some sdvice. I really liked the way this tractor ran.
Thanks in advance

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richard in nz

08-14-2006 02:54:06

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Re: International 584 advise needed in reply to Rick Bright, 08-13-2006 12:49:22

Nothing wrong with the lucas charging system, really dont know why you have such problems with them over there when they work here and every where else round the globe with little trouble. The parking brake will be rubbish, it was when the tractor was new and will always be, a late 85 series tractor or 95 series tractor will have the later type which was a 1,000% improvement over the old pinion shaft type, even when working properly if the tractor was hot and parked on a slope they have been known to release as the machine cooled. The loader may not be fitted with double acting cylinders which will not power down, also some quick detach loaders have an axulliery release valve which will limit the down pressure of the loader rams to avoid damage to the loader brackets as they may not be designed to take weight in the opposite direction. The feel of the PTO is normal, it is just the brake to stop rotation of the shaft by oil drag when the PTO is disengaged.

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Fromjb2

08-13-2006 16:16:13

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Re: International 584 advise needed in reply to Rick Bright, 08-13-2006 12:49:22

Hi Rick, the Lucas alternator will give out before long but can be easily replaced with AC Delco single wire alternator. Re lifting the front end of tractor off the ground, I believe it should but am not familar with Allied loader. My brother has IH 2250 loader on 495 which is same tractor but 3 cyl D179 engine, it will lift front end off ground no problem. Re parking brake, check adjustment as someone else has said but most likely has been driven with brake on and wrecked the band and probably the drum.
Costs many $$ to repair, have to lift top off range transmission, fenders, fuel tank and probably cab. If the crap from the parking brake band has settled to the bottom of the transmission then there is likely no problem but if it was done recently you may have to change hydraulic filter and Hytran fluid a couple times.
My brother fixed his 684 by a suggestion from old IH mechanic. Get a length of all thread bolt with an "eye" on the end, drill hole in right foot platform so "eye" of all thread bolt comes up between the brake pedals, put a nut on each side of the platform and adjusted length so when brake pedals are depressed a pin can be put thru the "eye" to hold the brakes locked on. Works great BUT must have good working hydraulic brakes.
Re PTO, that is normal you can turn it about 1/4 turn when engine if off, makes it easier to connect PTO shaft of equipment.
Re 3000+ hours, I would not worry about engine.
If oil has been change regularly and good quality Diesel fuel used these engines will run for many years. My brother has a 454 (3 cyl D179) from 1972 with over 15,000 hrs and still running great. Another hint if it has the Bosch injection pump add some Diesel fuel conditioner or a tablespoon of engine oil every time you refuel. The Bosch injection pump has a lip seal on the drive shaft from the timing gear and its only lubrication is from the Diesel fuel. 30 years ago that was not a problem but with the low sulphur Diesel fuel today the lubrication is decreased.

My 2 cents
JB2

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Redfan

08-13-2006 14:07:03

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Re: International 584 advise needed in reply to Rick Bright, 08-13-2006 12:49:22

First on the park brake. Check that all the external adjustment has been used up, if it has the rear housing top has to come off to renew the brake band.
On the loader. If it has small diameter cylinders they may need upgrading to larger ones, or more likely the hydraulic pump is a bit soft. See if you can get someone to check the pressures on the pump. Regards, Redfan.

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