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Help troubleshooting no spark IH 300U

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Matt Williams

10-11-2006 21:43:33




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To bring you up to date I finally figured out why the ignition wouldn"t turn the engine over. I had taken the starter in to have it rebuilt as it was sticking sometimes. The guy said it was fine and put a new lead from the starter to the solenoid. I asked at the time if it mattered which end of the solenoid it connected to and he said no. Well it does. ļ

Now it turns over but there still isn"t any spark at the plugs. Is there a troubleshooting guide already written?

I have verified that there is power when the switch is on to the distributor. I couldn"t get it to read until I went back to the negative post on the battery though.

My other question is when does the contact on the battery terminal of the voltage regulator close? The F and A contacts are closed now but the battery is open.

Thanks again for all your help. I am actually understanding all this, usually I just try stuff until it works and don"t know why it does. :)

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matt williams

10-13-2006 06:52:01




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 Re: Help troubleshooting no spark IH 300U in reply to Matt Williams, 10-11-2006 21:43:33  
Thanks for all the help. Hopefully I can get to this on MOnday.
It is opening day of deer and I will be gone until then.



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John T

10-12-2006 07:50:36




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 Re: Help troubleshooting no spark IH 300U in reply to Matt Williams, 10-11-2006 21:43:33  
Matt, later is my Standard Troubleshooting Procedure for no spark on a coil ignition system.

On the Voltage Regulator question, located between the BAT and ARM/GEN terminal on the Voltage Regulator is where the Cutout Relay portion of the VR resides. That relay is not supposed to close until the Gennys output voltage (its ARM post) is higher then the battery voltage on the BAT terminal. Thats how n where its output can get to n charge the battery (the battery is connected to the BAT terminal on the VR via the ammeter) but then when the tractor is shut down that cutout relay opens so the battery cant reverse discharge through the genny.

The VR's Field terminal (that wires to gennys Field post) should show a low resistance to ground cuz it provides the ground return path for the gennys field windings.

The VR's ARM/GEN terminal shows some resistance to ground cuz thats the shunt winding portion of the cutout relay.


TROUBLESHOOTING A BATTERY POWERED EXTERNAL COIL TYPE IGNITION SYSTEM:

PRELIMINARY CHECKS:

(A) To see if it happens to be a cap n rotor problem and to see if at least the coil is firing, remove the coil wire from the distributor (leave coil end intact) and place its bare end to within 1/8 inch from tractor iron, turn her on n crank her over, and see if she jumps that gap with a good visible blue spark????? If so but the plug wire ends (from wire end to 1/8 inch to frame) or the plugs themselves don’t fire, its a cap n rotor or plug wire problem. If the coil wire isnt even sparking, see below.

(B) Next open the cap and see that the points are gapped correct and indeed opening and closing as the engine is cranked and the distributor shaft rotates and MAKE SURE THEY ARE NOT BURNED OR PITTED OR CARBONED UP BADLY !!!!! !!!!! If so, running a point file between them to clean them up might make her run again HOWEVER that’s only a temporary cure, so if that cleaning makes her spark, INSTALL N GAP NEW POINTS. In the event they appear good but only gray oxide coated, non abrasively clean/buff/polish them using say a dollar bill or shop cloth etc. and see what happens.

MORE TROUBLESHOOTING IF ALL THE ABOVE STILL FAILS TO MAKE HER SPARK

1) THE VERY FIRST THING YOU GOTTA HAVE is voltage to be present on the coils high supply (NOT to distributor) terminal when you turn the Ignition switch ON. If not she cant ever fire, but in the event the ignition switch or circuit/wire down to the coil or any Ballast Resistor is bad or open, you can HOT WIRE it by jumping a hot ungrounded battery voltage source to the coils high input supply (NOT to distributor) side n see if she runs then???? If she fires hot wired, you could have a bad ignition switch ((That can happen, when Ignition is on, the switches IGN terminal must turn hot)),,,,, ,or an open Ballast (if it has one) or a bad/open wire from switch to coil.

If the switch is good, if you turn the ignition switch on and place a test lamp on the coils high (NOT to distributor) terminal SHE MUST LIGHT UP. If not again, look for an open Ballast Resistor (if it has one, it should read around 1.25 to 2 ohms across its terminals) or bad/open wires from the switches IGN output down to the Ballast (if it has one) and distributor.

2a) When the Ignition switch is turned on, voltage should appear on the coils high input side. That would be 6 volts on a straight 6 volt system or 12 volts on a 12 volt non external ballasted system, or around 6 volts on a 12 volt system that used a 6 volt coil plus an external Ballast Resistor and the coil is good and the points are closed and they and ALL wiring is good.

2b) To insure the coils low voltage primary winding is not bad/open, use an ohmmeter and measure its DC resistance between its lil + and -terminals. If its an open circuit (no continuity) its bad/open and will NOT work. It should measure around 1.25 to 2 ohms or so if its a 6 volt coil and maybe 2.5 to 3.5 if its a 12 volt internally ballasted coil. NOTE CAUTION have all leads and any voltage source DISCONNECTED FROM the coil for this simple primary winding continuity test. 3) Next, place your voltmeter or test lamp over on the coils other low to distributor terminal side, turn her on and crank the engine over.

4) A test lamp there should flash ON (when points are open) and OFF (when points are closed) as the engine is cranked slowly.

5a) If the lamp never comes on there, the coils primary is bad/open,,,,, ,,,,or the points are never opening,,,,, ,,,or theres a shorted/bad condensor (remove its lead to points and see if lamp comes on, if so, bad shorted condensor or its wiring),,,,, ,,or the points wire is shorted,,,,, ,,or the distributors side pass thru stud is grounded (use ohm meter to test that),,,,, ,,,or the points may have a shorted spring.

5b) If the lamp never goes off as engines cranked, the points are not closing or are bad,,,,, ,,or the wire or circuit is missing from the distributor to the points,,,,,or the distributors not well grounded to the tractor.

She cant fire the coil unless its low side is getting a conductive ground return path via closed points and then the circuit is open when the points open.

Be sure the condensor or its wiring is NOT shorted out and see if the lite comes on (when points open) with the condensor disconnected. If removing the condensor makes her spark, replace the condensor.

SUMMARY

Be sure the points are closing fully and open on high cam and ARE NOT BURNED OR PITTED OR CARBONED UP BADLY,,,,, ,theres voltage present on distributors high side at all times when ignitions on (or its a bad switch or open ballast or bad wiring to col),,,,, ,voltage on coils low side flashes on and off as distributor is cranked,,,,, ,,,condensors not bad/shorted,,,,, ,,no shorts in wires to points and no shorts in pass thru side out distributor stud,,,,, ,,coil has continuituy.

You may luck out n just need a new set of points. If the coil wire fires (see above) and the plug wire ends to 1/8 from frame but NOT the plugs, they are baddddd ddddd . Check them BOTH.

Good Luck n God Bless, post back any questions and your findings and any questions.

John T Nordhoff in Indiana, retired electrical engineer who usually lurks over on the Mother Deere boards versus over here on the “dark side”.

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Bob

10-11-2006 22:39:16




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 Re: Help troubleshooting no spark IH 300U in reply to Matt Williams, 10-11-2006 21:43:33  
I'm not sure what to say about the "no spark" situation.

Do you have the battery connected (+) or(-) ground?

Have you tried cleaning the points by drawing a clean white piece of paper cardstock through them a few times with them closed, then turning the engine over 'til they're open, and finishing the job with a spray of electrical contact cleaner to get rid od any remaining fuzz?

WHY are you messing around with the cover off of the voltage regulator? That's REALLY a good way to let all the smoke out of the electrical system. Disconnect the battery, out the cover back on the regulator, then LEAVE IT ALONE, especially while the battery is hooked up.

The voltage regulator has NOTHING to do with spark, or starting, and the third contact (the "cutout relay" will not close until the engine is running, and the generator is charging. The contacts that ARE closed are actually the "vibrating point voltage regulator", and the "vibrating point current regulator". Of the units with the points closed, the one with the HEAVY-GAUGE windings is the current regulator, and the unit wound with the LIGHTER-GAUGE windings is the voltage regulator.

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