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Hydraulics on old Farmall A: common?

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DennisT

11-06-2006 11:44:15

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I'm looking at an old Farmall A. It is set up as a street sweeper with rotary broom on front end. There seems to be a hydraulic pump mounted on the rear drawbar area. Funky looking, but appears there to drive one cylinder on front that angles the broom.

How common are any kind of hydraulics on a straight Model A? I am new to A's and Super A's, so I suppose this could be a super but I doubt it. I have photos, but not sure how to deal with them here. I'd be happy to send a photo as an email attachment if someone could identify this.

Thanks,
Dennis

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Bruce Wa.

11-09-2006 06:08:55

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Re: Hydraulics on old Farmall A: common? in reply to DennisT, 11-06-2006 11:44:15

The thing with the long handle and knob on top sure looks like a hand pump to me. Tighten the knob and pump to lift the broom loosen knob to lower. The chain driven pump is disconnected. It was probably for another application or took too much power.

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Red Dave

11-06-2006 15:03:08

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Re: Hydraulics on old Farmall A: common? in reply to DennisT, 11-06-2006 11:44:15

Sounds like a PTO driven aftermarket hydraulic pump. Lots and lots of A's, B's & BN's had them. We had one on a BN when I was a kid to operate the manure loader. I have one laying in the shed now.

Several companies made and sold them as complete units, some are homebrew. Not at all uncommon to see on these tractors.

The exhaust lift was an OPTION on A's, B,s & BN's but it just wasn't as handy and trouble-free as hydraulics.

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LenRahilly

11-06-2006 12:58:27

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Re: Hydraulics on old Farmall A: common? in reply to DennisT, 11-06-2006 11:44:15

The Farmall A came out with a PNEUMATIC lift. The EXHAUST was diverted into a huge cylinder that lifted the implement. I have heard that eventually the exhaust corroded this mechanism. The one advantage of this system over the conventional lifts of that time (some mechanical, as on F-20 and Oliver, some hydraulic, as on F-12)is that the lift could be worked even with the clutch disengaged. Most of the other power lifts from the 30s and early 40s operated off the transmission or PTO drive, and so, if the clutch was disengaged (at the end of a row of corn, for example), your lift went dead. If you wanted to come up very close to a fence, you had to shift to neutral, engage the clutch, lift the implement, shift back into gear before moving on. You COULD lift the implement on the go if you had room before turning. One of the problems with this plan is that you needed the engine running pretty fast to get some pump pressure for a quick lift; this meant you could run into the fence if you weren't quick about your turn. Independent hydraulics, driven off the engine, are wonderful by comparison. I believe that independent hydraulics were availble on the Super A.

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old

11-06-2006 12:37:31

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Re: Hydraulics on old Farmall A: common? in reply to DennisT, 11-06-2006 11:44:15

Sounds like its a PTO type pump and they where common for equipment like that. If it was a Super A the hyds would run off the engine not be on the draw bar. Its probably can with the sweeper system thats on it

Hobby farm

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Herb Willcutt

11-06-2006 12:12:52

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Re: Hydraulics on old Farmall A: common? in reply to DennisT, 11-06-2006 11:44:15

Sears (David Bradley) and Wards offered an add on pump for A's and B's. Likely you have something that came from the broom manufacturer.

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Janicholson

11-06-2006 11:53:40

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Re: Hydraulics on old Farmall A: common? in reply to DennisT, 11-06-2006 11:44:15

Look below (page3 or 4 for posting photo info. Hydraulic on the back was an addon from the company/person that made the broom. I may be a comercial pump, but was probably not IH. Jimn

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DennisT

11-06-2006 18:26:36

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There is a boxy unit that sits..... in reply to Janicholson, 11-06-2006 11:53:40

immediately left of the operator's seat. Looking at my photos again, it looks like the hydraulic unit is the one by the seat...maybe they removed the trans/dif cover and replaced it with this unit which would drive off a gear from below. ?? I'm guessing here. PTO has a chain sproket on it and the chain runs the drive line below the belly of the tractor. Drive line runs to front of tractor. Yes, there is a cylinder on the drawbar bracket and hoses run in and out of it. I'll be back there tomorrow and will look closer.

Dennis

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Janicholson

11-06-2006 18:44:19

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Re: There is a boxy unit that sits..... in reply to DennisT, 11-06-2006 18:26:36

This is more than likely a gear driven pump that (as you say) is driven from the trans (probably the constant mesh gear) That would make it a non-live hydraulic system, but valuable none the less because it is integrated into the "works" of the tractor without making it unusable for normal applications, Cool. Keep us informed. JimN

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DennisT

11-06-2006 19:21:14

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Here is a photo attempt... in reply to Janicholson, 11-06-2006 18:44:19

Rear of A

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El Toro

11-07-2006 04:00:43

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Re: Here is a photo attempt... in reply to DennisT, 11-06-2006 19:21:14

That is an add on to your Farmall A. Does it have
a foot throttle? It looks to be an Industrial A.
Hal
Photos look good.

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DennisT

11-06-2006 19:30:26

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another photo of hydraulic unit.....what is it? in reply to DennisT, 11-06-2006 19:21:14

Could be a better photo, but with the 1st picture, maybe it makes sense...

Dennis

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Janicholson

11-07-2006 13:10:49

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Re: another photo of hydraulic unit.....what is it in reply to DennisT, 11-06-2006 19:30:26

Here is what I believe. The hydraulic control on the top of the back of the tractor trans is not connected to the tractor casting, it is possibly on a bracket there. The hoses that connect to it come from the pump which could be connected (but is not) with the roller chain on the hitch. Thus the hydraulic is not operational due to lack of enough chain to go around all three sprockets, and the idler. The rear PTO is different than the belt pulley arrangement on some As, but it may be a stock IH casting. Good luck with it, it looks cool, and the hydraulic would work well for other applications if the pump is good. JimN

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DennisT

11-07-2006 15:06:29

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Just returned from looking again, and... in reply to Janicholson, 11-07-2006 13:10:49

The cylinder on the drawbar was/is driven by a sproket hidden from view. It's not connected. The drawbar cylinder's two hoses are not connected to anything and I believe that whole thing is completely separate from the rest of the tractor and hydraulics.

If the add-on hydraulic unit is on a bracket, that bracket is so close to the trans top it is indistinguishable. Not sproket driven. No unhooked hoses. Only one live hose period; and it runs to the front of the tractor. So my non-existant knowledge of hydraulics tells me that one hose provided pressure-out-only, and any device connected to it would operate under power only one way and said device must return under spring pressure or gravity/downward weight.

The way I see it, if I can buy this tractor I could remove the sweeper attachment completely including the odd drawbar mounted cylinder. This would leave me with a standard Model A with usable (if it works) one-way hydraulics, stock PTO and standard drawbar.

So I wonder if an operational A in this shape is worth $800 to $1,000???

Dennis

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Janicholson

11-07-2006 15:48:26

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Re: Just returned from looking again, and... in reply to DennisT, 11-07-2006 15:06:29

Dennis,
That "cylinder" on the drawbar is a Hydro pump. Cylinders do not have sprockets on them ever. The device on the top of the trans is, I believe, just a control valve body. It could also be a hand operated lift pump with the lever being the force input to a small displacement pump. The top of an "A" trans has no hole in it where that component is located. It is a solid casting, and too far back to be at the trans gears to get power from the input of the trans. I think it is worth the money, and a nice unit the brush might have some value to someone on Ebay, JimN

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DennisT

11-07-2006 16:02:30

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Got it. so they quit using it and.... in reply to Janicholson, 11-07-2006 15:48:26

disconnected the pump. Maybe had trouble with it. I guess the street dept. may have continued using it with the, "broom," stuck at one given angle. The PTO chain connects and drives only the main broom drive line now. Hard to tell how long the hydro system has been unused. Best to buy the tractor figuring the hydraulics are not working.

Considering your last comment, the unhooked hoses must - somehow - have been connected to the underside (or somewhere)of that controller. Wonder if that pump/cylinder was also the hydraulic fluid reservor?

I have probably beat this issue to death by now.

Thanks for all the help,
Dennis

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Jim Becker

11-07-2006 17:32:28

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Re: Got it. so they quit using it and.... in reply to DennisT, 11-07-2006 16:02:30

I think Jim Nicholson pretty well hit the mark. Looks to me like the "cylinder" on the drawbar is a hydraulic pump that has probably gone bad. After which, a shorter chain was used to run the broom. The unit on top of the transmission housing is probably a hand pump. You pump up by pumping sideways on the white lever. I'll bet the round knob ahead of the lever is turned to lower the broom (like the release on a floor jack). The original control vlave was probably removed then this thing was installed.

The rear, near the PTO is the standard IH configuration for an A with PTO but no belt pulley.

This particular tractor appears to have had a pneumatic lift on it at one time. Since it is an industrial, it probably started life as a highway mower. When the owner upgraded their mowing equipment, this tractor got moved to broom duty. I think that probably happened to a lot of A mower tractors.

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