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Building up a C263 gas engine...?

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Sean Wetgen

11-08-2006 22:24:16

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An overhaul is due on my 65' Farmall 706 that has a 263 gas engine. The Tractor Vet has made my mind up on keeping the gas engine and building it up for more power. Instead of swapping to a diesel 310. But I am curious to how much can a guy build to it and how much gain could I get. He talked about making the 263 into a 291 using the same block and doing a line bore, then bore the the block to center line of the crankshaft. Deck the block, and rebuild the head completely. He mentioned to rebuild the cam and get new lifters. Then balancing the entire engine. Mentioned on reaming the main jet on the carb a tad, and recurving the distributor to the 291's specs.

But I am more or less a weekend builder and don't do it alot to know what would all work. Hopefully he will reply to this and share some more on the build. But can't I use an 806's carb from the 301? Be a tad bigger but should supply enough gas. Where do I find specs to rebuild the cam or recurve the distributor?

Isn't there a way to add alittle more storke by doing an offset grind of the crank? Can that be done to this style motor? Thought of putting a turbocharger on it, but don't care for them on a gasser. Just a bunch of little questions and need some advice. I don't know is any of the machinists in town would know of a IH 263 real well for a changing build. Stock yes, built I'd have to check around. But I want to know what I am talking about to them so they can understand what I am after. Thanks!

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karl f

11-09-2006 16:26:55

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Re: Building up a C263 gas engine...? in reply to Sean Wetgen, 11-08-2006 22:24:16

heck just overhaul it to stock configuration and you"ll see a world of difference. our 656 gas was burnin oil and ate valves at about 5000 hours, and pulled the 9.5" discbine in 2nd ok, 1st in thick stuff. after the overhaul, it will play with the discbine in 3rd, sometimes gotta pull the ta in wiregrass or really thick stuff. it burns about 4 gal an hour, but in 3rd gear you"ve got alot of cut hay behind ya! for light duty work it just sips the fuel. my dad says choppin corn with it when new it was burnin 4 gal an hour too, so i guess i did a decent job on the overhaul. :)
tractor vet--what"s your full load gallons per hour?

-karl f

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the tractor vet

11-09-2006 19:11:59

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Re: Building up a C263 gas engine...? in reply to karl f, 11-09-2006 16:26:55

Now i never sat down to think about it but she will run longer on a tank of gas then i want to set in the seat , we can get in 12 - 14 hours on the plow two good days mowen hay , could get more hay down in two days if the John Deere haybine would mow better and at a faster speed but mowen in 3rd low ya just don't cover much .

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karl f

11-09-2006 19:25:49

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Re: Building up a C263 gas engine...? in reply to the tractor vet, 11-09-2006 19:11:59

of course my 656 is only a 5 speed, so 3 dd is about 5mph. probably into high range on the larger framed tractors...
-karl f

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the tractor vet

11-09-2006 19:11:16

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Re: Building up a C263 gas engine...? in reply to karl f, 11-09-2006 16:26:55

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the tractor vet

11-09-2006 08:30:40

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Re: Building up a C263 gas engine...? in reply to Sean Wetgen, 11-08-2006 22:24:16

Ok heres the deal . When ya upgrade to the 291 kit to make your old 263 a 291 ya have to buy the special sleeves as they have a wider top flange on them as the 263 had a wide flange and the STOCK 291 had a narrow flange at the top of the sleeve . Now all the mods that i did to my buddy's 706 that he bought from me back about 17-18 years ago ran fine for 11 years before we had to real anything major to her . The worst repairs that we had to do was a couple leaking O/Rings and chargen problems with the genarator and that about made me a drunk along with the guy that use to do my electrical work as the gen. would check out just fine on the bench and work for a week or so and just plum up and quite . But back to what you want to do . If ya want to make the change then the block will have to be bored a bit and since it is alreay at the machine shop now is the time to make it wright . Now heres the deal when ya deck the block ya up the comp. not by much but you do up it and when ya mill the head to true it up ya up the comp. Now over the years of normal operation you have ware in the engine on everything and just before we tore eugene's 706 down we were eating exhaust valves like M&M's we tryed everything that i could think of to stop this talked to countless number of old I H mechanics and finaly talked to a guy out in Ind. that was a old I H dealer where him and his three brouther ran the famaily dealership and he ran the inhouse machine shop where they did all there owen machine work and he and i had a lenghty conversation on the subject and he gave me some insight on this and told me to change the oil that we were using and also check the cam for ware . Well when we took the engine down for the rebuild i found that the cam had ware off the top of the lobes and that the lifters wer starting to cup now this would HOLD the valve OPEN longer and thus cause a loss of power and also helped on the valve burning problem . So when i found this i had the cam rebuilt to Factory spec. and Blueprinted this makes everything the same all the way across the board . This was and old drag racers trick when running pure stock back in the good old fun days of hot cars and Mini skirts . so this will give all ya can get from a stock cam and the price was not bad to have the cam done it came to 175 bucks . Now balanceing the engine is the cheapest hourse power ya can buy and that cost us 200 bucks all the new pistons were weighed and balanced the rods were deflashed and polished we did that then they were all cut and balanced and resized . I got a littel carried away on this one as you would think that i was building a nat. record holder as the crank got polished and deflashed we lined bored the block just to true it up and it was out by just a few thousanths then my buddy set it up and bored it off the center line of the crank . On the head we rebuilt the head totaly and even did a C/C job along with a super good three angel valve job and HAND lapped the valves in . Everything was hand fitted and all pistons were fitted to each hole as the piston size varys and we built in .004 skirt to wall . Now if i ever do and other one i will put .0045 clearance to her because the pistons are not FORGED anymore they are Cast and they swell more under load . Now the down side of running a gasser from the 460 on up is that you have to run the high test gas , now i know that someone is going to come in here and say i am all wet on this but the whole time we were having the engine problems BEFORE the rebuild alot of it was the gas . Now if ya have and ORG. owners manual For the tractor and you read under FUEL req. it states in there that the MIN> fuel req. is of a good clean fuel of a MIN of 93 octain . Now here is and other thing that MOST people do not know that THIS alkihol that is being added to the gas of today causes a LEAN burn cond. and like we use to say in the racing ind LEAN IS MEAN and it will EAT and engine as this happened to this engine just after we put her to hard work as the fuel supplier DID NOT bring what we ordered and instead brought us what he called farm gas with his idea of lead subtatute and this caused the top of the pistons to swell and there for locked up the engine and scored the sleeves . Now luckly it did now realy do that much harm as a couple quick passes with the hone removed the piston material and they cleaned up just fine and a new set of pistons had to be reweighted and installed . The tractor ran super and layed down a solid 87 hp. at pto speed and would toqure rise to 97 down to 1250 engine RPM . Then two years ago the fuel supplier that we had been using hired a new driver and HE made the mistake and brought out a load of 87 . octain and we did not know and while grinding feed she ate #6 piston and i had to pul her down and redo #6 as 1 and 6 run the leanest on the gassers . Now as to carb mods here is what i did on that , i replaced the main ventura with a 1 1/8 ventua from a 806 then i had a local company that makes drill bits make me a REAM that was .001 bigger then the factory jet and REAMED the jet not drilled as just drilling a jet does not give a smooth finish . On the dist . i got the advance plate from Case I H for the 291 dist . and rebuilt the dist as the advance curve on the 263 is differant then the 291 as the 263 full advance is about 24 degrees and the 291 is like 18-19 and you can go as high as 20 but after that you are pushen your luck as this will cause detonation and will heat the tops of the pistons and lead to a seezed engine . We went thru the govener and realy did nothing other then repair the ware and a new spring and turned up the RPM a couple hundred . Now this 706 is used everyday for everything and in the winter is the only tractor that is used as we put the 1066 and the 806 to bed for the winter once the crops are done . YEs we went a littel overboard but it sure does run sweet . This 706 is a realy good one and she is a 65 model . Now we have done the engine the clutch and T/A and the hyd. and a new paint job and replaced the seat chusions three times and by spring she will need a new seat as well as the 806 and the 1066 . Would i do andother 706 gasser up the way we did this one YES in a heart beat. you would have to park your Arres in the seat and run her , The balance job made her so smooth running that that alone made a huge differance . We have done balance jobs on several tractor engines and the end results were nothing short of awsome .

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Sean Wetgen

11-09-2006 21:19:37

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Re: Building up a C263 gas engine...? in reply to the tractor vet, 11-09-2006 08:30:40

So where can I get those special sleeves? Are they an M&W thing or pretty common? Most parts places, implement dealers and maybe the machinists might not know where to get them or even hear of them. Our guys here are dumb as to "tricking" out things. Wish I lived eleswhere but thats not going to change and make the best of what I got. Pretty much on the kit, the sleeves and pistons will be different, but everything else is towards the 263. Pistons I can use the actuall 291"s? But not stock 291 sleeves. Think I have that part. I need to talk to our machinist in town, maybe has a general idea of what we"re talking about. He builds stock car engines and hobby stock, but I never had a motor done there before. So I don"t know for sure what he is cabable of doing. I still want this tractor for a good solid day of hard work. If I want to go out and plow for 14 hours or even if its on a elevator idling, I need it very dependable. I don"t like the idea of the 93+ octane as when the racers are done for the season race fuel is over. And as you say the alcohol leans the gas even if it shows 92 octane, that I knew. But mainly we have regular unleaded 87 oct here on the farm and it probably won"t change as the barrel is used for more things then the 706. So I still need the tractor to run on 87 fuel. Compression had alot to do with the rating of fuel to be used right? Think the stock CR of the 263 was around 7.5:1? Well what if I can keep it down around 8-9:1 will it still work or risk a meltdown? I have a formula somewhere on the calculation of CR. Something like the bore and stoke, total thinkness of the head gasket, and if the bolck is decked. But again its something the machinist might have in mind and know what to do. Again I need to find that out.

Is there a place I can go and find the specs on the cam so if mine needs rebuilding I got the specs I can get to have the building done? Not as easy as a v8 where most of the times they make new cams and lifters. The lifters are solid not hydraulic correct? Just trying to fully understand it all so I can explain it to the machinist when it comes time.

I might end up port and polishing the head. Only on the exhaust ports. Don"t think a guy wants it on the intake side as the roughness helps atomize the fuel/air mixture. New guides, valves, seats, springs, mill the head to true on the face and manifold sides. One thing I had in question yet is can the crank be offset ground to drop the pistons alittle more for the added stroke? Or is it close enough?

I had the motor getting warm to hot on me this summer. She was between the last line and the one before that. And pulling it was right by that last line. So new pump, thermostat and radiator boiling will take place. By the water getting out, the oil will thin more. I seen the 282 diesel had an oil cooler by the oil filter, I have the spin on housing, can I put the oil cooler on this gasser? I just don"t want things to get hot and ruin the motor after the build. Pry the biggest or heaviest things it will run are a 5 bottom plow, 18" field cultivator, and a grain vac on the 1000PTO. Other than that I use a 6" bush hog mainly, and other light duty jobs. I have an 886 with a 358 diesel to do the really HEAVY jobs, but wouldn"t mind having the 706 close to or match that diesel motor. But I suppose I wrote enough for now, until the next post.

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the tractor vet

11-10-2006 07:53:34

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Re: Building up a C263 gas engine...? in reply to Sean Wetgen, 11-09-2006 21:19:37

I posted to fast as to your questions . On the fuel thing here a STOCK 706 gasser was suppose to run no less then 93 octain as back when they were new reg gas was of the 95 octain and there were a few ompanys that produced 91 to 93 octain fuel like GUlF OIL had what they called GULFTAIN and it was of a realy poor grade as it was around 90 octain and even a old junk 6 cylinder cheve would knock and ping on it and I H stated in the owners manual that in there gasser tractors that you should use NOTHING LESS THEN 93 octain . Now here we are today in the 21 century and ya see it here everyday that someone is whinning that his gas tractor does not run well and this and that and i have covered this ground before many times CHANGE YOUR FUEL and even though you may think that you can run your tractor on the CHEAP STUFF and yes it will normaly start and run and for the most part it will run somewhat ok for the most part it is not running like it should and many of the plug fouling problems are from the gas not as much as the oil burning IT IS THE GAS . Now most of the people on here have gotten into playen with tractors because now they are in mid life and want something to do in there spare time and yes playen with old tractors is a great stress reliever and yes they ran old tractors in there youth BUT how many of you guys have played with engines since back in the late 50 and earlie 60's ???? and learned the trade form OLD timers or built compatition engines or even built and engine just to put it on a Dyno to destroy it to see what failed i can rack up 5 in that dept. Sorta neat to watch and engine come ungluded at 10000 rpm. OR watch things starting to GLOW up into the head . So here again it is best to understand just what you are working withand just what it was made to run on , So your old 706 with the 263 was made to run on NO LESS then 93 octain fuel with not alkihol and NO MTB OR MTD added . As for the whole group of us that run OLD tractors everyday doing what they were designed to do and that is WORK in the field and run on what they were ment to run on they do a fine job , now we do not farm 10 million acres but these old tractors are farmen on 150 acres up to 350 acres and get the job done with out cabs , heat or A/C . Over here in Nroth East Ohio a 706 gasser has all it wants with 4x16's plowen at 8 to 10 inches deep as that is about where the clay starts more or less . Now if ya have nice sandy soils then maybe 5x16's . In corn ground with the 4 bottoms she can run along in 1st. high but get her into sod depending on the age of the alphia sod 4th low and sometines 3rd low , my 806 setting at 110 hp with 4x16 4th low to first high is all that ya want on her she has just a tad more thru the tough spots . Now on the 1066 if ya can set in the seat it is more like pick a gear any gear with the 5x16 's in corn ground at the 8-10 inch depth and in sod 1st high . But nomaly we just run the 1st high and either pull down on the throttel a bit more or back off a littel , as i have never had her on the dyno i just set the pump so that if we want to chop in 4th low she has the snort but when ya do open her up she can show you just how fast she can drain the tank the other down side of her power is that when the spot on the chopper get's a littel thin she will take th curve wright out of it and required a , shell we say BEEFING up and also rquired the use of SYNTHETIC grese in the gear box as i realy hate the smell of super hot 90w . SO if ya want to pull 5x18's then my advice would be GET A BIGGER TRACTOR, AS that is even to much plow for what ya have now .

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the tractor vet

11-10-2006 07:12:59

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Re: Building up a C263 gas engine...? in reply to Sean Wetgen, 11-09-2006 21:19:37

Well ya can pay the BIG bucks and get them from any Case I H dealer and have the ORG. part,# on each piston or you can buy Clevite and get the same stuff with out the Org. part # stamped in each piston for less then half the price From anybody that sells Clevite . As for me i get all my engine parts from a Jobber warehouse at jobber prices . and that is about 40% less then parts stores . If i would have been smart when i closed up my shop i should have kept my dealerships on the various parts lines and just sat here and sold rebuilt and new parts on line at reduced prices, and made up some video's of just how to do it and if i was not so lazzy now i shold be maken up splitting stands and sell them But not i give away free advice .

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ChadS

11-09-2006 13:41:25

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Re: Building up a C263 gas engine...? in reply to the tractor vet, 11-09-2006 08:30:40

They carry alot of heat in the head. The exhaust ports are very restricted on any tractor 6 cyl gasser. Open up the ports on the exhaust and will make a whole different machine out of it. Runs cooler cause the gasses dont backpressure the valves and hold in the heat. May be a bit less prone to burn up exhaust valves, Ive seen em have alot of oil burned up caked in the ports, porting the head can help keep the port cleaner so trash does not build up and fall back onto the valve and hold em open long enough to burn. Dirty, rusty exhaust manifolds should be torn down and inspected, lots of room for trash to hide and get caught in the valves. A 263 is a tough ol engine, but if its shot, its shot, and like Vet said, put it all back into specs, change a few little parts here and there to help wake it up. I had a 706G in for an inframe overhaul last fall, pistons and sleeves were all busted and cracked. Block was fine, but never seen one self destruct like that. New sleeves n pistons, crank looked good, was still in good shape, rebuilt the head, all new, only way to go, dont second guess on the head,, slipping the pto at 93 hp at 540. lots of head, carb, ignition work to get it to wake up. Chad

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the tractor vet

11-09-2006 19:03:20

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Re: Building up a C263 gas engine...? in reply to ChadS, 11-09-2006 13:41:25

Reset the PTO pressure up to 265 lbs and try again i bet she don't slip now . As far as opening up ports unless i do a run on a flow bench and have a head to scrap out that area i do not get into and i have seen way tomany times in my years of tweeken engines where you can loose more then ya gain . Now as for the heat on them there are several things that come into play here and for the exhaust manifold she got a new one with the big pipe and the heat riser was repaired and all the old carbon and lead deposits were cleaned out.

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ChadS

11-10-2006 13:05:15

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Re: Building up a C263 gas engine...? in reply to the tractor vet, 11-09-2006 19:03:20

Ive been tinkering with the engine in my 460 puller,,,, C263 out of a 403 combine. Sleeveless block, stock bore. I was dreading the rebuild on it. It burned oil, had low compression on a few cyls. Ran,,, but not enough. So, I got the head off, started cleaning off the carbon off the piston heads, and around the top of the bores. Long story short, the bore did not even have a lip at the top,, nor did the pistons have any scratches, just like the day it was built. 1967 was the year on the rod bearings. The rings were BAAAADDD!! The top ring,, I could bend it out in a straight line, without it breaking! Never seen nothing like that before,,, but 6 pistons had rings like that. Cleaned, and a ring job, new rod bearings, honed the block, short block inframe rering rebuild was like 150 bucks with the bearings and gasket set. The head,,, HAHAHA! that was another story. The old combine head was pretty rough, bad valves, guides, you name it BAD! Cooked more like it. I had a head we had bought as a rebuild, back when Alfords In Laketon Indiana sold out,, just needed put together,, Ported the ehxaust, just to the gasket pattern, but thats quite a bit,, but still plenty of head left over. Once it fired up, got everything retightened, smoothed out, I could finally run it. Now, being disapointed from the past experiences on the pulling track with this motor, I was leary,, real leary, but I was on top of everything I can think of,,,,, I was just playing around, had it up in 3rd, just turned it loose. It runs around 3000rpm, So it was flying!! My thoughts was,, this thing ran like my stroker H puller, and this engine is pretty much stock!!! Power, wasnt a problem. Im afraid if I went to the 301,,, way too much ponies for what Im doing. But, sticking with the 263,, I still got that option,, but, just aint lacking for power. Chad

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460/560

11-09-2006 08:10:12

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Re: Building up a C263 gas engine...? in reply to Sean Wetgen, 11-08-2006 22:24:16

If you're that serious about getting some more power, just swap in a 301 out of a 806 or 715 combine or just put a diesel in it(361,407,414...). You can use all IH parts so it will bolt right in. May have to add a little length to the hood and get different frame rails.

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the tractor vet

11-09-2006 13:36:21

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Re: Building up a C263 gas engine...? in reply to 460/560, 11-09-2006 08:10:12

Well if ya think that it is that easy to do then do it as i have been down that road before and i just like to see how much more i can get out of a given engine . Also when ya do one up like that it is rebuildable as many times as needed . Now i have never liked any Hd. engine that does not have removeable sleeves like ya find in a 806 gasser or a ford diesel and the jury is still out on the 5.9 cummins . As when the engine needs to be rebuilt ya still have to have it bored and fit everything up and when there is no more room to bore then ya got the problem of hoping that there is enough meat left to bore it again and stuff a heavy wall sleeve in so ya can start again . As for the trouble we went thru on this one it was realy not a big deal as it was down for rebuild and i always go the 263 to 291 change when i do one . As for the rest here again everything was at the machine shop and if ya want and engine to run well ya do them as i do them . I do not care what engine you are building the first time can be and inchassie the next one best be and out of chassie . When doing a D 361 or DT 361 or 407 you would be wise to center line bore the block .010 and go with the .010 over sleeves as this block has a tendency to warp or tweek a bit . also after the sleeves are PRESSED in it is on your best intrest to have a GOOD dial bore gauge and check the sleeves for wrinkeling as they do . Now after ya got the engine ready to go in it goes in like the day it was put in at the factory and you are not MICKEY MOUSEN things to work NO MUSS NO FUSS and ya have something that is done well and will run for a long time if ya feed it wright and NOBODY screws up like our fuel guy did . Not somebody is going to say that a gasser uses tomuch fuel well go ahead and keep on thinking that way . I have run both gassers and diesels doing the same job and i realy do not see that much differance in the two . Even running the 93 octain it is still cheaper then diesel . Up to a point , when it is plum COLD out and ya have chores that need attened to first if ya run the diesel ya have to plug it in and wait then ya have to let it warm up longer then the gasser and when a diesel is COLD it does not BURN all the fuel and that fuel works hard on washen down the cylinders . Were as a gasser ya walk up to the barn and start it up no matter how cold it is and in a few min. it is up to operating temp . Everything has it's place and the gassers fit in well for us . And they are the way they should be not cobbeled up .

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460/560

11-10-2006 10:37:19

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Re: Building up a C263 gas engine...? in reply to the tractor vet, 11-09-2006 13:36:21

It is pretty easy to put a diesel in if you know which parts to use, especially since 706"s are so similar to 806"s. If seen several 7"s with 400 series engines that look very nice. As for the 301, you wear 2or 3 out and replace them for the money you would probably spend in parts and labor on a 263. You can by whole combines for couple hundred dollars. I"ve got a 460 with a 301 in it out of a 715. Just re-ringed it, new bearings, reground valves, drilled out the jet and honed out the #35 venturi some and worked over the governor. Made mid 90"s on the dyno with pump gas(93) at about 2600-2800. You can also spin these motors well over 3000 with out any problems. Or if you want to go big and stick with gassers, put in a rd series 450 or 501. I"m puttin one in a 560 right now. Not as easy as puttin in a diesel, but will make plenty of power. Any way you go, that is the great thing about IH, you have so many options because so much is interchangeable!

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