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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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M backfires won't start! HELP!

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granger

01-07-2007 13:04:28




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What a week!!! First my hydraulic pump cracked in half & I replaced that. Just finished installing the new one today. While I was at it, I put a new distributor cap on, since the old one was in need of replacing. Filled the resavoir with hy-trans fluid & started. Tractor was running great & I let it warm up for about 15 minutes before I lifting bucket to bleed the air. Bucket lifted all the way fine, tipped the bucket & when it swiveled all the way down & at the end, tractor backfired & shot out a small flame out of the exhaust & quit. Tried starting & it cranks fine, it just backfires & will not start. Any ideas on what is going on. I am getting tired of feeding the cows by hand & need to get tractor back up & running. THANKS

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EL Toro

01-08-2007 05:43:32




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 Re: M backfires won't start! HELP! in reply to granger, 01-07-2007 13:04:28  
Bring No1 piston to TDC on the compression stroke
then remove the distributor cap and see where your rotor is pointing. Pull the valve cover and see if both valves are closed on that cylinder.
Hal



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Hugh MacKay

01-08-2007 03:07:06




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 Re: M backfires won't start! HELP! in reply to granger, 01-07-2007 13:04:28  
granger: Sounds to me as though you may have stripped the distributor drive gears. My 130 did this just before Christmas, just as it happened I noticed the engine start to labour as though the timing was too far advanced. That lasted about 40 seconds, then it backfired and quit. If I tried turning over after that all it would do was backfire on 2 cylinders.

I found even although distributor drive was full of grease, it also had crushed ice in the grease. I suspect when I started the tractor that morning that crushed ice had been a whole chunk. I have seen distributor drive gears completely worn out before. These were worn some but I believe that ice finished them off.

Your M has the same distributor drive and same gears. CaseIH want about $165. CAD for those gears here in Canada. There is also bushing in there, I think may have been worn enough to be a factor with my 130. I haven't done the fix on mine yet, I just installed the distributor and drive from my SA.

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glennster

01-07-2007 17:01:22




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 Re: M backfires won't start! HELP! in reply to granger, 01-07-2007 13:04:28  
hook up a timing lite and see where the motor is firing at. use some chalk, paint, or white out liquid paper on the timing marks so they stand out good. see if the marks jump around when you crank the motor over. if they are not firing in the same place, something is wrong in the gear drive. you can also pull the valve cover and check to see the rocker arms are moving.



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F-Dean

01-07-2007 15:25:24




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 Re: M backfires won't start! HELP! in reply to granger, 01-07-2007 13:04:28  
Take the distributor cap off to double check the direction it is turning. Then make sure that is the direction that you used when you put the plug wires in the new distributor cap. Yes, this advice is from experience!!!!



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granger

01-07-2007 14:41:59




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 Re: M backfires won't start! HELP! in reply to granger, 01-07-2007 13:04:28  
Any input, help, advice BOB M, HUGH MCKAY, TRACTOR VET, ALLEN IN NE,....anybody???



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Nebraska Cowman

01-07-2007 14:50:29




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 Re: M backfires won't start! HELP! in reply to granger, 01-07-2007 14:41:59  
Yup, I'd say you have problems. Either broken gera jumped a tooth or two or sheard keyway. Yeah, I susspect the rotor would still turn, friction on the shaft would do that. And I wondered the other day why the pump split? Like maybe you are loading the system with too much pressure? You gotta have a relief valve somewhere. Maybe your tractor is trying to tell you something. They do that. Most of my education has come from the "school of hard knox"

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Nat 2

01-07-2007 13:38:37




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 Re: M backfires won't start! HELP! in reply to granger, 01-07-2007 13:04:28  
We've had this happen a few times.

Most likely, the keyway on the pump/distributor drive gear sheared when you hit the end of stroke on the hydraulic cylinder. The shock of the hydraulic tailgate bouncing off the end of its stroke was enough to do that on the old M.



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granger

01-07-2007 14:10:12




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 Re: M backfires won't start! HELP! in reply to Nat 2, 01-07-2007 13:38:37  
Nat, just curious, are there any reasons why this wouldn't of happened on the old pump & would on the new one?



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granger

01-07-2007 14:03:30




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 Re: M backfires won't start! HELP! in reply to Nat 2, 01-07-2007 13:38:37  
Nat, can you fill me in on some of the details on this. Where do I check to see if this is the problem? What do I look for on the keyway, etc. If it did shear, what should I be able to see? Thanks



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Nat 2

01-07-2007 17:14:06




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 Re: M backfires won't start! HELP! in reply to granger, 01-07-2007 14:03:30  
Pull the distributor cap. If the rotor isn't turning, then you've got to pull the hydraulic pump.

The gear I'm talking about is the gear that goes on the front of the hydraulic pump.

If you didn't tighten the nut adequately, it could work loose and then the shock from the hydraulic cylinder hitting its end of stroke would finish it off.



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glennster

01-07-2007 13:12:58




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 Re: M backfires won't start! HELP! in reply to granger, 01-07-2007 13:04:28  
the cam gear may have let go. take the distrbutor cap off and crank the motor, see if the rotor is turning, if not it more than likely broke that gear. not uncommon for the m's with the live hydraulic pumps. the super m has quite a bit heavier gear just for that purpose.



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granger

01-07-2007 13:58:14




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 Re: M backfires won't start! HELP! in reply to glennster, 01-07-2007 13:12:58  
Took the distributor cap off & cranked engine, rotor still turns.



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RustyFarmall

01-07-2007 14:14:07




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 Re: M backfires won't start! HELP! in reply to granger, 01-07-2007 13:58:14  
Cam gear may still be the culprit.



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granger

01-07-2007 14:16:49




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 Re: M backfires won't start! HELP! in reply to RustyFarmall, 01-07-2007 14:14:07  
What do I check & look for to see if the camgear is the culprit?



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Janicholson

01-07-2007 18:50:50




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 Re: M backfires won't start! HELP! in reply to granger, 01-07-2007 14:16:49  
If gears messed up in the fromt engine cover, they can affect operation (usually do). I would put the engine at TDC on Number one cyl (front). Do this by pulling the sparkplugs from that cyl and while it is cranked (by hand preferably) place your thumb, or a cork in the cylinder when it is on compression, it will blow your thumb out. Then watch the timing marks as stated below, to get it at TDC. Then pull the cap and look at the rotor. It should point to the #1 plug terminal inside the cap. If it does not, or if it is way hard to get it to TDC by the compression with thumb idea above, I would suggest it has broken parts in the timing gears. Do not try to start it or run it or pull it to get it going until these things are checked for sure. (sevier dammage can be created where minor damage is located now. As stated below, it is mandatory to have a working relief valve on the system. Hoses will split, castings will break, and danger is likely. If your M is factory Hydraulic, it is equipped (may not be working) if it is put together by others it may be missing the bypass pressure relief. Good luck, JimN

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