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How much compression on a diesel engine??

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dave2

01-24-2007 15:22:09

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Hi Folks,
Going back to the posts about ether/glowplugs. What about the ones that didn't have either one? Some of you talked about things starting right up in real cold weather. Mine won't even start in summer without help. Could it be that I don't have enough compression? Or another problem? When it starts, everything is fine and runs good. A little black smoke under a load, but nothing more. Any suggestions? The motor is a DD-111 (1825cc 3 cylinder) if it means anything

Thanks, Dave

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mowr

01-25-2007 12:28:17

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Re: How much compression on a diesel engine?? in reply to dave2, 01-24-2007 15:22:09

If you have a glow plug for each cylinder, they HAVE to work if you want normal starting. If you get the glow plugs working and still have hard starting with no significant blowby, battery, cables and starter are the next suspects. Battery must be high quality, DIESEL-rated. The important rating for gasoline car engines is 'cold cranking amps.' For diesel engines it is 'reserve minutes.' The difference is usually very obvious in the weight of the battery, the diesel battery being much heavier, of course. Not only does the diesel crank much HARDER because of the extremely high compression but it must crank much FASTER to build enough heat in the cylinders to ignite the fuel. Thus the need for a battery that can produce awesome power and TORQUE at the starter.

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dave2

01-25-2007 14:38:33

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Re: How much compression on a diesel engine?? in reply to mowr, 01-25-2007 12:28:17

Thanks folks. Keep it coming. I'll fix the glowplugs in the next few days. I hope anyway, it's a modification in the wiring (which has been fried) that lets you use normal glowplugs which are about 1/10 the price of the originals. The battery is several years old. I just replaced cables last week because they were ate up (literally)with corrosion.I'll start looking for a battery also.

Thanks, Dave

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Fromjb2

01-24-2007 18:46:30

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Re: How much compression on a diesel engine?? in reply to dave2, 01-24-2007 15:22:09

Re Diesel engine compression:
After the gas start Diesel engines IH used two types of Diesel engines:
1)The indirect injection model that had glow plugs and a precombustion chamber. The Diesel fuel was injected into the precombustion chamber and ignition was started before cylinder reached TDC. The glow plugs were required to heat the precombustion chamber for a cold start. The compression ratio was about 22:1 giving a cylinder pressure of around 400 or greater PSI. Example D282, D312 and BD154 engines.
2)The direct injection model that injected the Diesel fuel directly into the top of the piston.
These models did not require glow plugs to start but usually had an ether injection system to start in cold weather. The compression ratio was around 17:1 giving a cylinder pressure of about 315 or more PSI. Example all the German build Neuss engines D179,D239,D310,D358.

More info on Diesel engines at:>Link

Not>Link an expert so open to comments and corrections.
JimB

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dave2

01-24-2007 19:30:45

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Re: How much compression on a diesel engine?? in reply to Fromjb2, 01-24-2007 18:46:30

Thanks. Mine is German built, just smaller than your examples (I live in Germany). What books that are still available are in German. The factory has been closed for ten years now. Every now and then someone puts a repair manual on ebay, but they are real proud of them. I get along with the language face to face, but books (especially technical) are real head scratchers. I have a glow plug system (not working at the moment). My ether injection system is a quick squirt of thrust in the breather mushroom while cranking. I wouldn"t worry much about it, but I have to go through inspection (late already)and these folks get pretty hard headed about things working the way they should. Guess I"d better check my compression. At the risk of sounding like an idiot, I check it the same way you would a gas engine (just in my case it would be the glow plug hole)?

Thanks for the patience.

Dave

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Fromjb2

01-24-2007 20:55:04

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Re: How much compression on a diesel engine?? in reply to dave2, 01-24-2007 19:30:45

Yes, thru the glow plug hole should be good for pressure testing. If you fix the glow plugs it will probably start properly. We had a B414D with a British build BD154 Diesel with glow plugs and you had to use the glow plugs on the first start of the day unless the outside temp was in the 80F or more.

Good luck
JimB

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dave2

01-24-2007 21:21:17

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Re: How much compression on a diesel engine?? in reply to Fromjb2, 01-24-2007 20:55:04

Guess I'll quit procrastinating and fix wire the glowplugs. When it hits 80 degrees here, I don't use the tractor. I guess if the motor was worn out, it'd be smoking and using oil.

Thanks, Dave

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mn steve

01-24-2007 17:20:14

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Re: How much compression on a diesel engine?? in reply to dave2, 01-24-2007 15:22:09

i dont know where your compression should be but it takes alot of compression to start a diesel without help. chances are your motor was not designed with enough compression to do that. in time your injector tips burn off and the tip becomes more open and dumps more fuel wich will give you more power. My "2000" peterbilt smokes because of this reason.

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the tractor vet

01-24-2007 17:11:01

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Re: How much compression on a diesel engine?? in reply to dave2, 01-24-2007 15:22:09

With out diggen around for the spec's on your engine for the most part most diesels are up in the high 300-thru the 450 psi cranking pressure on the avg. and higher .

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Janicholson

01-24-2007 16:02:19

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Re: How much compression on a diesel engine?? in reply to dave2, 01-24-2007 15:22:09

I am sure there is a specification in the manual, I do not have it. If there is 14.7 PSI ambient atmospheric air pressure, and we put it into a combustion chamber 15 times smaller, it reaches 220 psi plus the pressure of heating it. probably about 250 psi. If the ratio is near 19:1 then 300psi would be likely. Those are just calculations, if your engine uses no oil, runs well after a brief warmup, and will start with ether. I'd say you are OK. Ether injector kits may make it easier to do the job, and easier on the internals (from correct amounts, and while turing over) The owners manual should be specific on the process expected to be used. JimN

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