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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Delco Alt. 1 wire to 3 wire

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SuperA-Tx

02-14-2007 15:44:24




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Cousin converted my Super A to 12 volt back several years ago and used the Delco 10SI Alternator. It is wired like Image #11 on Bob's wiring diagram page, I ran all new wires. I had to put a smaller pulley on it to get it to excite but after that it works alright although I still have to rev it up sometimes to get it to excite. A week or so ago tho I was reading here that the three wire system is lots better. On Bob's site theres a diagram for Farmall Super H (image #6) that uses the Delco 10SI Alt but has the three wires. I see no differance in the two diagrams other than the extra two wires off the 1 and 2 posts on the alternator and the added "warning light". Is there a reason I couldnt just add the two wires and the warning light to my setup thus converting it to a three wire system?

Would something have to be done to the Alternator other to make it work other than what I have mentioned?

Plus I saw in a post where you could use a diode in place of the warning light. Can someone tell me a little more about that please.


Link

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Bob M

02-14-2007 15:58:37




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 Re: Delco Alt. 1 wire to 3 wire in reply to SuperA-Tx, 02-14-2007 15:44:24  
1- and 3-wire alternators use different internal regulators. But it's a simple matter to convert a 1-wire alternator to a 3-wire - simply replace the 1-wire regulator.

Any alternator shop will have 3-wire regulators in stock. Price is about $10. Regulator installation is easy - can be done in about 15 minutes without removing the alternator from the tractor.



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teddy52food

02-15-2007 06:21:50




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 Re: Delco Alt. 1 wire to 3 wire in reply to Bob M, 02-14-2007 15:58:37  
How do you change the regulator while it (the alt) is still installed? Every one I have worked on required the alt to be split & the regulator was the last piece to come out.



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Bob M

02-15-2007 06:51:06




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 Re: Delco Alt. 1 wire to 3 wire in reply to teddy52food, 02-15-2007 06:21:50  
It's pretty simple:

1 - Disconnect the ground cable from the battery (safety first!). Also loosen the alternator drive belt - this makes reassembly easier later on.

2 - Pull the aux wiring connector (2-terminal plug) from the back of the alternator. You can leave the heavy alternator output (BAT) cable connected.

3 - Remove 4 screws holding the alternator halves together.

4 - Gently separate and remove the rear cover from the alternator. The stator winding will come off with the rear cover.

5 - The regulator and brush holder assembly is screwed to the inside of the rear cover - and is now easily removed/replaced. Be sure to replace insulating washers, etc. in their original locations!

Reverse the above steps to reassemble.

----

Tip: Before sliding the rear cover back onto the alternator push both brushes fully into the brush holder. Now take a piece of stiff wire (a straightened paper clip will work) and insert it thru the hole provided in the back cover, then thru the 2 rentention holes in the brush holder. This will hold the brushes out of the way while you reinstall the rear cover. Then after the rear cover is back in place, simply pull the wire out from the rear and the brushes will drop onto the slip rings.

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SuperA-Tx

02-14-2007 20:08:37




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 Re: Delco Alt. 1 wire to 3 wire in reply to Bob M, 02-14-2007 15:58:37  
I see what your talking about now. Delco part #D680 for the three wire system.

Thanks, Bob and Bob M



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Bob

02-14-2007 15:57:47




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 Re: Delco Alt. 1 wire to 3 wire in reply to SuperA-Tx, 02-14-2007 15:44:24  
(This is "Bob", NOT BobM.)

SOME so-called "one-wire" alternators will act like standard "3-wire" alternators if you add the extra wires that plug into the internal voltage regulator (who's pins MAY be covered by a rubber plug).

With other "one-wire" alternators, this will not work. I know of NO way to determine this, looking at the alternor from the outside, as it has to do with the electronics inside the internal voltage regulator.

You can always "swap out" the "one-wire" internal regulator for a (standard) 3-wire unit.

Some "one-wire" units have an "oddball" diode setup, instead of the standard "diode trio" in a "3-wire" unit. This can be swapped, too.

The 1N5408 diode shown in my photos works equally as well as the "idiot light" that can also be used. It's a matter of choice which way you want to go. A 10 Ohm 10Watt wirewound ceramic-case power resistor is another direct alternative to the light ot the diode.

The 1N5408 diode is very robust, and yet is CHEAP.

Some of the other guys around here seem to get by OK with lesser-rated diodes.

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Carl E

02-14-2007 22:47:06




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 Re: Delco Alt. 1 wire to 3 wire in reply to Bob, 02-14-2007 15:57:47  
Bob, where would a guy be able to purchase a 1N5408 diode? Going to do my first 12-volt conversion.



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Jon Hagen

02-15-2007 12:21:04




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 Re: Delco Alt. 1 wire to 3 wire in reply to Carl E, 02-14-2007 22:47:06  
If your a tightwad like me who hates to waste anything, A defective diode trio with any one of the three diodes still working, works good as a blocking diode as will any one of the 6 button diodes in the rectifier assy of a 10-12SI alternator One failed diode in an assy makes it useless to put in an alternator,but has years of usefull life left as a blocking diode. I also have used the alternator rectifier assys to repair small battery chargers which come with such poor rectifier assys, and is the usual cause of failure. A Delco rectifier assy with two good positive diodes work great in a charger of not more than 20 amp. The built in heatsink does a good job without a cooling fan.
The diode Bob talks about is avalible at Radio Shack.

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SuperA-Tx

02-15-2007 18:49:07




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 Re: Delco Alt. 1 wire to 3 wire in reply to Jon Hagen, 02-15-2007 12:21:04  
Radio Shack doesnt list the 1N5408, as least not online.



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Jon Hagen

02-16-2007 10:43:50




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 Re: Delco Alt. 1 wire to 3 wire in reply to SuperA-Tx, 02-15-2007 18:49:07  
It may pay to check at a Radio Shack store. I hear some complain that RS is now more of a cell phone store than a parts store. I never use the diode method, I feel the "idiot light" method works just as well,is more readily avalible, and can serve as a charge light if you wish. It can also be hidden if you desire a stock look. Remember that those little "dash light" bulbs are avalible at almost any auto parts store,farm store,hardware store, so a replacement is cheap and easy.

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Jon Hagen

02-14-2007 20:26:54




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 Re: Delco Alt. 1 wire to 3 wire in reply to Bob, 02-14-2007 15:57:47  
If you get an auto parts store replacement regulator plug($2), so you do not have a chance of shorting exposed regulator terminals to the alternator case, there is a 99% chance it will work with your existing regulator. I have not found one of Bob's one wire regulators that use an odd diode trio setup, but on the chance you have one,and it might not like having power supplied to the #1 regulator terminal, I would use the little idiot light inline in the #1 wire. That little light bulb will only allow a fraction of an amp to flow to the alternator regulator #1 terminal and has little chance of causing any damage if the "one wire" regulator is one of those oddballs Bob talks about. A diode will allow quite a few amps to flow untill either the diode or the oddball alternator component fails. Another couple of pluses for the bulb is that it can serve as a visual charge indicator and is avalible at most any hardware,store, auto parts store, farm store.

I just installed a one wire alternator I had on the shelf on a project where we needed a working charge light, With the wiring connected as in Bob's drawing, it works exactly like a standard"three wire" alternator. It excites at idle and the charge light works as intended.
The instruction sheet that came with my last box of "one wire" regulators said that if the alternators excite speed was too high or if the project needed a charge light, that it was OK to install the wiring as in a stock 3 wire system.

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SuperA-Tx

02-14-2007 16:22:26




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 Re: Delco Alt. 1 wire to 3 wire in reply to Bob, 02-14-2007 15:57:47  
So theres no way to tell if it will work or not then without doing it and see if it works.

One other thing is when I couldnt get it to excite before I had the pulley changed I took it to a car garage down the street and the guy there added a wire from either the #1 or #2 pin to the BAT and it excited the Alt but it would run the battery down when the tractor wasnt running showing a dis-charge of about 4 amps. After it did that I decided to take that wire off he had added and took it to an alternator shop and had the smaller pulley put on.

Is that warning light or diode what keeps the battery from dis-charging?

It isnt something that HAS to be fixed but just someting I was thinking about I might change if it was a simple as adding the two wires and the diode. Maybe I should just leave well enough alone but with this cold weather there isnt much to do.

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Bob

02-14-2007 19:41:21




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 Re: Delco Alt. 1 wire to 3 wire in reply to SuperA-Tx, 02-14-2007 16:22:26  
The IGNITION SWITCH cuts off the "excite" current to the #1 terminal, so the battery doesn't run down with the switch "OFF".

The "idiot light", resistor or diode helps to protect the alternator, and stops current from the #1 terminal from backfeeding into the igntion system (distributor ignition) which would prevent the engine from shutting down when the switch is turned to "OFF".



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SuperA-Tx

02-14-2007 20:06:10




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 Re: Delco Alt. 1 wire to 3 wire in reply to Bob, 02-14-2007 19:41:21  
OK, I got it. I found out I need to check to see if it has a #D680 voltage regulator and then it should support the three wire system.

Read up on it on the link below. Has three pages to it but the second page told me the most. Someone else might find it of use so below is the url and a clickable link if it works.

Link



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Bob

02-14-2007 21:05:41




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 Re: Delco Alt. 1 wire to 3 wire in reply to SuperA-Tx, 02-14-2007 20:06:10  
There are many aftermarket "3-wire" regulators in use that will not have the Delco "D680" markings on them, yet are "3-wire" regulators, so looking for that marking will not prove anything.



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