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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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F-4 Magneto Question

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Tom43

02-18-2007 06:13:18




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Dear Board,
I have worked on several Wico magnetos on Deere tractors, but I have some questions about the F-4 used on the F-20 and F-12. Some say that when the flywheel mark is at TDC and that number 1 piston is on compression to line up the little holes so that the ponts are just opening. I presume you would want the spark advance lever in the full retard position although I have heard it both ways.

Others have told me that the tractor is properly timed when the impulse snaps as you pass the TDC mark. Which is it as there could be a discrepancy between the two. If we hook up a battery and a timing light what should retard timing be? Will it be TDC? How much advance should we get when the spark lever is in the full advance position? I have wondered about these questions for a long time and hope some of the board members will enlighten me.

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Roger Mills

02-18-2007 08:32:28




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 Re: F-4 Magneto Question in reply to Tom43, 02-18-2007 06:13:18  
Will add that some mags are timed with the points open method, like aircraft. The mag is turned until the impluse snaps then backed up till the points close and then forward till they just open. So: as you can see there ame many ways to time ignition systems.



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Roger Mills

02-18-2007 07:18:30




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 Re: F-4 Magneto Question in reply to Tom43, 02-18-2007 06:13:18  
While Magman rebuilds mags and is lurking about the forum, and knows all. Some info that may clear up things in general: some mags do not have an impulse coupler but MOST do. It retards or delays the spark and the snap increases the output so it will fire when you crank it or spin it with the starter. General rule is that the impulse should snap at or just after TDC so the engine will not kick back and break your arm or the starter. When the impulse is spinning fast enough it 'kicks out' and the timing reverts to normal. Normal can be a manual advance/retard lever or fly weights that move outward and advance the spark with rotation speed/RPM, OR rarely, both BUT sometimes neither. Different engines have different timing requirements and these are part of the design of the ignition system for that engine. The initial timing of any engine is part of that design--if they use the impulse snap as the criteria then it assumes that the points are set to proper gap AND the correct mag is installed and working correctly. If they use the points, usually a distributor ignition, then it is when they just open and you use a meter or something like it to see when they "just barely" open. If they have a manual advance lever it should be in the full retard or specific 'start' position and is specified in the tune up specs from the manual. If no specs exist for a given engine then this info can get you close without breaking something when you try to start it.

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Dave Allgire

02-18-2007 08:53:23




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 Re: F-4 Magneto Question in reply to Roger Mills, 02-18-2007 07:18:30  
A little long winded, maybe. The F-4 magneto is capable of a 35 degree spark range. To properly set the timing you first must set the points to .013". With the mag off of the engine, or backed away from the coupling, insert a nail to lift the pawl off of the impulse coupling. Then rotate the spark lever housing up as far as it will go. This grounds out the points. Remove the cover and rotate the mag until the breaker arm rubbing block is on any high point of the cam. Set the points to .013". A slight drag on the feeler guage indicates the correct setting. Now remove the distributor cap and rotate the mag so the distributor disc is in the 2 o'clock position. This should line it up with the brush for the #1 plug. Next insure the timing mark on the flywheel indicates #1 and that #1 piston is at top dead center. Without disturbing the mag settings you have just made, try installing the mag back on the engine. If the coupling does not line up, remove the two capscrews in the coupling plate, rotate the plate until it lines up and reinsert the capscrews. To check the timing, crank the engine over 4 full turns until you are coming back up on #1 cylinder. The timing mark on the flywheel should be in the window, the distributor disc should be in the 2 o'clock position for the #1 plug, if everything is correct. If the timing is correct, remove the nail that is holding the impulse pawl off of the impulse coupling. If timing is not correct, make the necessary adjustments to the coupling plate with the two capscrews. This plate is made such that only two holes will line up in any position. Now as you crank the engine over, you will hear the impulse coupling "click" for each plug in the firing order. And the timing mark may or may not be exactly in the center of the window. Ideally, you want the impulse to click just after the piston has passed TDC. That way you insure the piston will be headed in a downward direction. That could be as much as 8 degrees past TDC. Keeps the engine from kicking back and breaking things, like your arm, wrist, etc. Hope this helps and answers your questions. I got this info from an F-12 service manual, the Blue Ribbon Service manual on magnetos and my own experience. If you have more specific questions, my EMail is open.

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