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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Farmall M clutch adjustment remaining?

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chadd

07-05-2007 11:09:18




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I am just trying to figure out whether or not I need to look at replacing a clutch in the near future. Do you lengthen the rod to adjust for wear or shorten it? As I understand it, as the clutch plate wears, the fingers protrude out from the clutch futher, which begins to decrease the distance between the throw-out bearing and the fingers and decrease the pedal free-play. When they touch, the throw-out bearing begins to hold the clutch part way engaged, leading to slippage. The clutch originally had a half inch more freeplay than it was supposed to, so I lengthened the rod some, which decreased the free play. Am I correct in assuming that you shorten the rod to adjust for friction disc wear? Thanks.

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ScottyHOMEy

07-05-2007 12:58:10




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 Re: Farmall M clutch adjustment remaining? in reply to chadd, 07-05-2007 11:09:18  
You're on the right track, Chadd.

It's been a long time since I got into an M clutch, so I can't recall exactly how the adjustment in the linkage is set up (i.e., which way to turn the nuts), but you do use that adjustment to set up your free play. You don't do it at the fingers.

You don't say whether you have the hydro reservoir on the tractor. If not, you can remove the cover plate below to see which way your adjustment is moving the throwout bearing. You might even be able to peek around the reservoir if you have one, or around the hydraulic piping where it comes out the side. I just don't remember. There may also be an access hole on the side where you can get a look in there to see which way you're going.

Is the clutch slipping, or are you just trying to adjust the freeplay to specs?

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ScottyHOMEy

07-05-2007 14:06:53




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 A couple more thoughts in reply to ScottyHOMEy, 07-05-2007 12:58:10  
It sounds like you found the right direction on the adjustment to recuce your free play. Did you get it down to specs?

If so and the clutch is holding fine, you should be good to go for a while.

As for how long it will last . . . How much adjustment do you have left? If you're at the extreme on reducing your free play, the friction disc might be quite thin and due for replacement before long.

But it's not unheard of for the fingers to be out of adjustment. I've seen one so bad that the throwout bearing never stood a chance of contacting the fingers on an otherwise perfectly good clutch, but that was an extreme and unusual case.

If the clutch isn't slipping, the freeplay is within specs, and you still have room to reduce the freeplay for more wear yet, you should be good to go for a while.

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chadd

07-05-2007 19:58:37




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 Re: A couple more thoughts in reply to ScottyHOMEy, 07-05-2007 14:06:53  
Our 1940 Farmall M has the belly pump and the two-way remote attachment on it, so I can't easily look into the clutch housing. I have just been doing everything from the clutch pedal and memories from working on our W6 changing the clutch. But I am noticing that the W6 works backwards from the M clutch(the linkage connects to the pedal underneath the pivot, so when you step on the pedal, the linkage pulls the lever back, and then the throwout fork is located under the throw-out carrier, so it will push the throw-out carrier into the clutch fingers.) I was noticing that when you press in the clutch, the clutch doesn't disengage a whole lot, as most of the pedal travel was wasted by free-play. My dad adjusted it 10 years ago when it was on the corn picker. It had full fluid in both 14.9-38's, had a mounted corn picker on it, and was pulling two full gravity boxes up a 20 or 30 degree incline in road gear when it slipped some at the crest of the hill, and he had to go to 4th. He had heard from someone that adjusting the linkage all the way would help it, but since then, shifting gears meant a little grinding, because the clutch never seemed to fully engage. I think that because it is a 1940, ours only got an 11" clutch, and pulling all of that weight over the hill was just more than 11" could handle (the later ones got 12"), and I tend to think that it has a built motor to pull all that weight up the hill in the first place (it handles a 12" double acting disc with the wheels up in the air in clay without much trouble in 2nd gear), which isn't easy on the clutch, either. The clutch hasn't slipped since that hill, 10 years ago, but I think that the grinding might be due to the excessive freeplay. I got it back to factory settings, but used up two turns or so to get there. We'll see if it helps or not tomorrow. I lengthened the rod to decrease the pedal free-play. As the clutch wears, the free-play should decrease correct? So then I should shorten the rod to adjust for wear, right? So that means that I should have a lot of adjustment left, correct? Thank you for your response, and all of your help.

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ScottyHOMEy

07-05-2007 21:16:10




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 Re: A couple more thoughts in reply to chadd, 07-05-2007 19:58:37  
If you've got your clutch freeplay in the 1-1/8" range that George set you up on, and things are working right, you've got her licked.

Loaded tires and the like will make your tractor feel heavier on the clutch but, in the end, she'll be right.

You mention a grinding, which could be matter of rivets in the clutch facing grinding against the flywheel or the pressure plate, but I think that's a remote possibility. (If it is the case, yes, you need a new clutch disc, and as long as you've got the tractor split, you might just as well adjust or replace the cover and pressure plate. More likely it's the gears in the tranny running up against themselves. A Farmall thing, not to worry.

Please do remember that theese trannies are not synchromeshed. The only way to put the old darlings into ANY gear is to stop, clutch, and let the driveshaft come to a rest before going into gear. Except that that last little crunch before going into any gear is a given on these tractors if you haven't held the clutch pedal down long enough. Pick any gear you want, but don't harbor any notions of shifting up through the gears. At least quietly.

Bottom line . . . If your freeplay is alright at the pedal and she goes ahead under a load okay, you're fine. If, in getting the freeplay right, you found yourself running out of thread, then replacing at least the disc and, as long as it's split and you're in there, the pressure plate/cover is the route to take. If she's holding fine where you are with some room for further wear, I'd say don't touch a thing after you've got the freeplay where you're happy with it.

I hope I've helped.

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chadd

07-06-2007 06:24:54




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 Re: A couple more thoughts in reply to ScottyHOMEy, 07-05-2007 21:16:10  
I think that the grinding is gear clash. If you hold down the pedal for 10 seconds, the transmission never completely stops turning, and when you shift, the gears don't want to intermesh. Yeah, I know about the not shifting while moving bit (I've been driving tractors for at least 14 years), although, I do powershift into road gear from 4th to give it a little head start. Thanks for your help.

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georgeky

07-05-2007 11:47:49




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 Re: Farmall M clutch adjustment remaining? in reply to chadd, 07-05-2007 11:09:18  
With free play adjusted correctly on the pedal, it will not effect the throwout bearing. You lengthen opr shorten the rod to do this' whichever the case may be.. This only moves the pedal and nothing else. If you are having slippage problems you do need a clutch, pressure plate and throwout bearing, and maybe a rear main seal in the engine. Often times oil seeps from the engine and gets onto the clutch and or flywheel thus causing clutch slippage. Again the pedal is all you are adjusting for disc wear compensation. Put one of the 4 button clutches, which is the heavy duty clutch and it will not slip.

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chadd

07-05-2007 12:32:21




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 Re: Farmall M clutch adjustment remaining? in reply to georgeky, 07-05-2007 11:47:49  
I am not quite understanding what you mean.This is the way I am looking at it, and correct me where I am going wrong. If I adjust the length of the clutch rod, I would think it has to do something to the location of the throwout carrier, because they are attached by a permanant linkage. Regardless of the length of the rod, the pedal has to return to the same place when it is not being used (which on an M is the front of the differential cover). So if I adjust the linkage, and the pedal is returning to the same place before and after adjustment, it must move whatever is at the other end of the linkage to a slightly different spot, which is the throw-out bearing carrier. The clutch isn't slipping yet (I was pulling a 12 ft double acting disc the other week, which seems like a pretty decent load, and it never slipped once), but was just wondering if I have a ton of adjustment left or almost no adjustment at all. I am just wondering if I will need to plan for a replacement in the very near future.

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georgeky

07-05-2007 12:53:22




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 Re: Farmall M clutch adjustment remaining? in reply to chadd, 07-05-2007 12:32:21  
Chadd, the free play is measured from the platform of tractor to the clutch pedal. The spring is what returns it to the same position all the time. This rod only adjust the amount of free travel in the pedal distance from the platform. The proper free travel distance from pedal to platform is 1 and 1/8th of an inch. This is determined by pushing the pedal in until it meets resistance. Then measure from pedal to platform and adjust accordingly to 1 and 1/8. It does nothing to the clutch itself. Again the rod doesn't adjust anything except the pedal travel. Once the clutch starts slipping there is nothing you can do to remedy it except replacing it or the pressure plate or both. If you adjust the rod to keep pressure on the throwout bearing it will cause problems such as disc and throwout bearing wear.

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chadd

07-05-2007 19:27:52




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 Re: Farmall M clutch adjustment remaining? in reply to georgeky, 07-05-2007 12:53:22  
Yes, the rod does adjust the pedal free travel, however, am I correct in saying that the clutch will not work properly if the clutch pedal is no longer able to compensate for the thinning of the friction disc? Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the purpose of adjusting the linkage to prevent the throw-out bearing from touching the fingers with the clutch pedal in the rest position, which could lead to slippage? I am just trying to determine if I have a whole clutch worth of adjustment left or almost nothing at all. I have about 4 or 5 of the rod threads inside the clevis and about 20 or 25 in between the two clevis ends. The tractor originally had excessive free-play which I remedied by lengthening the rod (leaving me with 4 turns in the clevis). As the clutch wears, the free play should decrease right? So that should mean that I should shorten the clutch linkage to account for wear, which would mean that I have a ton of clutch left, correct? That is what I am concerned with. Thank you for your post, I appreciate your time and help.

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georgeky

07-05-2007 23:33:43




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 Re: Farmall M clutch adjustment remaining? in reply to chadd, 07-05-2007 19:27:52  
Chadd, like Scotty said, if you have adjusted the free travel and about to run out of threads in the direction you turned it, your clutch is getting thin. As long as your free travel is right that is all you can do. Just take note of the direction you turned it to get the free travel adjusted right. If that clutch slipped as you say and was adjusted then, I would almost bet it is getting thin. As long as there is free travel the bearing is not riding the fingers. I do see what you are saying, and it does seem to make sense, but for some reason I don't think it works that way. so you will have to take notice of the direction you turned it and that will tell you how much disc is left. Once you have ran out of threads it is about done. The three sitting here are almost as long as they can get. None of them have had a new clutch in many years, so I am sure they are thin.

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ScottyHOMEy

07-05-2007 19:46:06




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 Re: Farmall M clutch adjustment remaining? in reply to chadd, 07-05-2007 19:27:52  
"am I correct in saying that the clutch will not work properly if the clutch pedal is no longer able to compensate for the thinning of the friction disc?"

Yes.

Lawd, I wish I could remember which way those threads turned! If you've got lots of thread left in the direction you were going to tighten up the free throw then, yes, you've got lots of wear left. If you're runnin' out of thread in that direction, then you need to be thinkin about havin' a clutch disc and/or cover on had. But I think the former is probaly gonna be the case. Unless you have big plans aout draggin' five 16s around next spring.

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ScottyHOMEy

07-05-2007 13:01:16




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 Re: Farmall M clutch adjustment remaining? in reply to georgeky, 07-05-2007 12:53:22  
The pedal resistance you refer to is comes from the face of the throwout bearing contacting the fingers on the clutch cover.



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georgeky

07-05-2007 13:12:35




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 Re: Farmall M clutch adjustment remaining? in reply to ScottyHOMEy, 07-05-2007 13:01:16  
That is right, but it is all done with free travel adjustment. It will not do anything for a slipping clutch. When clutch is released the pedal and or linkage should not be putting any pressure on the throwout bearing. That is why there is a spring on the pedal.



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ScottyHOMEy

07-05-2007 13:22:22




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 Re: Farmall M clutch adjustment remaining? in reply to georgeky, 07-05-2007 13:12:35  
Jeeze! No kiddin'?

I think the question was about clutch wear, not slipping. And he started with too much free play. So if the fingers are moving closer to the bearing from disc wear, and he had too much free play to start with, my guess is the spring is there and working. And a cup of coffee says he has plenty of disc for a while, as long as it isn't fouled and/or slipping.

Whatsay we wait and see how Chadd replies to my question above about any slipping?

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georgeky

07-05-2007 14:42:51




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 Re: Farmall M clutch adjustment remaining? in reply to ScottyHOMEy, 07-05-2007 13:22:22  
No need for sarcasm. I gave him the proper free play adjustments. He did tell me it wasn't slipping.



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