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500-C Crawler engine problem, Timing???

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Doug from Pa

07-09-2007 05:12:08

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I have an IH 500-C crawler that was running fine then started to miss, it slowly got worse until it died. I tried starting and even with either it does nothing. I have fuel at the injectors, but not even any white smoke. I'm figuring it has a timing problem and removed front cover, but I can't see how the crank gear is located on the crankshaft, also can't find any way to remove it. I don't see any problems there with gears and cam, all is intact. I'm guessing the gear might have moved on the crank, but I don't even see a key? Parts book does not show one either. I just bought a shop manual, but waiting for it to arrive. Has anyone had any experience with this, or have any suggestions. Thanks

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Janicholson

07-09-2007 06:03:12

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Re: 500-C Crawler engine problem, Timing??? in reply to Doug from Pa, 07-09-2007 05:12:08

If, when cranking, it seems to have compression (cranking sounds normal). If there is no white smoke. Then I would say it is the fuel system, and not mechanical. The lack of white smoke would indicate no injection of fuel.
It is pretty easy to check basic (runable) timing with the valve cover off and #1 injector out. The valve timing is going to be nearly identical to a gas engine (intake compression power exhaust) timed to piston travel. Good luck, JimN

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doug in pa

07-09-2007 06:37:06

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Re: 500-C Crawler engine problem, Timing??? in reply to Janicholson, 07-09-2007 06:03:12

I sort of decided its not fuel, since I do have fuel at the injectors. Also when I shot a lot of ether into the intake, it did nothing. It has compression, that you can feel by turning it over by hand. I just feel since the ether has no effect that its not even getting into the cylinder at the right time. Since I already have the timing cover off, I want to check everything mechanical to be sure before I attemt anything else.

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Janicholson

07-09-2007 16:56:53

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Re: 500-C Crawler engine problem, Timing??? in reply to doug in pa, 07-09-2007 06:37:06

You should not be able to turn it by "hand" unless the injectors are out of the head. If you can, it is possible to have the timing issue.
Fuel at the injectors is not the same as injected fuel. The amount of fuel is small, and the line being full is not a pump shot. I would have the injector pump vhecked if the timing I described seems OK. White smoke is always going to be there if it is injecting Diesel fuel. Even if timed wrong. A diesel compression tester may be needed. JimN

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Doug in Pa

07-09-2007 17:39:11

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Re: 500-C Crawler engine problem, Timing??? in reply to Janicholson, 07-09-2007 16:56:53

When I say turn by hand, I'm talking pulling on the fan. I still say if an engine is timed properly a shot of ether in the intake will do something, it will either try to fire, or start to lock up. This engine does nothing with a big spray of ether into the intake. I already have the front cover off, so trying to check the timing before i do anything else. I just can't figure what locates the crank gear as I see no key, nor does parts book show any. This is my problem right now, i don't want to spend any money on having the pump checked until I eliminate the possibility of timing being out, which I;m almost sure it is due to the ether test

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Janicholson

07-10-2007 06:27:53

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Re: 500-C Crawler engine problem, Timing??? in reply to Doug in Pa, 07-09-2007 17:39:11

The valve cover needs to be pulled off, along with the injectors on all cylinders. The #1 cyl (away from operator (sorry for the obvious, no derision intended)) should be placed at TDC. This will either be on the top of the compression stroke, or the top of the exhaust stroke. Both valves should be closed if it is the top of the compression stroke.
Both valves will (probably be nearly closed if it is the top of the exhaust stroke.
Rotate the engine (by hand) in its correct direction watching the valves. If it was on TDC compression, both valves will stay closed until the crank is turned 180 degrees (or very close), then the exhaust valve will begin to open.
From there, the exhaust valve will remain open until just before it reaches TDC again.
If it was the TDC of the exhaust stroke, the intake valve will begin to open right away as the rotation begins, and it will stay open until near the end of the 180 degrees. Then the intake will close, and the compression stroke begins with both valves closed, on up through TDC for about 360 degrees.
If this is checked, and found to be close, I would suspect the pump, or other issues with compression.
The way it stopped is not like timing, it is like a fuel issue.
However, if you can turn it by hand with the injectors in, the situation might be compression, Diesels are difficult to turn with a starter, and usually not by hand at all.
The information I have given is generic, I am not framiliar with the 500C engine, and have no clue whether it has the Gas start, diesel run engine of the early series, or a diesel with pre heater, or with glow plugs. The diesel part of the valve cycle I have described is accurate and will tell the story of timing. Best of luck, and please let us know what happens with a new thread, and what turns out to be the cure. JimN

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MN Scott

07-10-2007 10:21:56

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Re: 500-C Crawler engine problem, Timing??? in reply to Janicholson, 07-10-2007 06:27:53

One thing I want to add on valve timing on that engine. In order for the pump or valve timing to be off enough not to run the gears would have to jump several teeth. This would be easy to see as the gears would be chewed up with missing teeth.

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