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Got another funky problem with my l'il put-putter 100.....:(

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Patrick Martin

08-30-2007 20:52:49




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third party image Another problem arose today when I attempted to do some cutting with a new mower I just picked up...third party image

Now here's the details....maybe you experts can help me a bit and I be indebted to you again!?!?!?!third party image..... ....
Back a few weeks ago when I was doing the mods on the 100 for the new gauge cluster I made I lost about a gallon of coolant while removing the thermocouple for the water temperature gauge. Afterwards that night when I cranked it up to check for leaks I noticed it was running quite a bit hotter than usual (If you guys remember, I posted a separate thread about this discovery). It was running in the 160's or so and my oil pressure went from 15-20psi to like 5-10psi when at full operating temp. (you can see what I had on the gauges at full temp in the "Parts & Pieces" album at the left)

Today I added more coolant. I had just cranked her up, turned around to grab the fresh gallon of antifreeze, got the funnel, etc and in the span of this two minute period I glanced at the gauge and noticed it was already peaked at 160"ish". This little 100 has NEVER spiked that quick before, NEVER. It usually takes a few passes around the yard just to get it to operating temp and that was 110 degrees or just under it, it seemed.

I'm thinking it'll clear up now that the radiator is full (thought I might have a bubble or something) but it doesn't. I think OK, well maybe I'll try running it for a bit. I back up to my new bushog (its a 5' ford brand bushog, has the bent tube yoke) and hook up to it and lo and behold it picks it up halfway then sinks back down. Well, after performance it looks like I'll be tearing into the touch control box again.....

I try again and manage to get it to pick it up a little and strangley it holds it there. I now commence to mowing a bit. I make a few passes, then a few more, stupid me is too busy looking behind, smiling like a dummy at all of the neat little paths I've made that I forget to look at my gauges.

I get ready to make a turn then spin around and glance at my gauges only to find my touch control temperature gauge is at 230 degrees and slowly climbing!!!!! !!
My oil pressure is ZERO and my engine temp is up to 190 degrees and I nearly had 0psi oil pressure!!!
What the h*ll????!!!!! ????? !!!!!

I drop the mower and head to the shop and creep it inside and begin slowly throttleing down.

Now all this time while I was mowing and all of this ruckuss was happening she never missed a lick and made NO funny noises, thumps, or anything. Only thing I can say that spunded funny is that once I engaged the PTO with a load on it it did try to die and then over rev. Once we got going she smoothed out. I figure this is more a governor problem than anything else.

As for the engine temp I am thinking three things. The water pump isn't turning enough, the timing is off, or the internal bypassing of the touch control unit strained the engine and caused overheating.

The water pump is BRAND NEW from this site. I wouldn't have wasted time with trying to salvage my old one given the price. The belt is what I suspect here. Each time I start up I have to wait a few minutes for it to stop squealing. It always does and I have no problems afterwads. I know I needed to fix this but I was figuring low RPM engine = it shouldn't matter too much. Also figured the thermosyphon system on the older tractors of the same engine family use the same radiator setup so it shouldn't matter.

Am I totally wrong here?

The bracket I have my alternator mounted to is homemade and p*ss poor. If someone here has a better alternator bracket lying around that their not using could I please purchase it? Right now it's nearly impossible for me to get my belts nice and tight plus the belt is a little off center too. Someone told me that Hugh Mackay made hitches and stuff to sell, I don't know if this is true or not, but if so Hugh I'd be glad to be a customer for one. third party image

For timing I just tuned it audibly to a sweet spot at the idle kinda midways. It does sound good, I may be totaly incorrect though. Can this be the fault?

I dunno about the Touch Control system doing it either. When I got down the lines to the pump were HOT. The only reall moving part is the pump.....can that be it?????

As for the low oil pressure, well I'll be dropping the pan anyway just for a checkup so I will remove some of those gaskets GeorgeKy was telling me about. I didn't know they were actually shims for the impellers. I think I put three of them on the bottom plate of pump since there were three there to start with.

Help please if you can guys! third party image I am going to have to leave in a few minutes to go visit my grandfather in north Louisiana (who happens to also have a sick tractor I am having to fixthird party image) and may not be ablle to reply right away but I will be checking this when I get back and throughout the time at his house.
Y'all have a great time this weekend and please help or give me some ideas if ya can!!!!!third party image God Bless!
P.S. I gotta say this little thing sure has given me a run but honestly I have to tell ya, I wouldn't trade it for a thousand new ones. I actually look forward to cracking things apart on it, just like every other machine I have.third party image

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Patrick Martin

09-05-2007 19:45:49




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 Re: Got another funky problem with my l'il put-putter 100... in reply to Patrick Martin, 08-30-2007 20:52:49  
Hey guys I'm back and I just gotta say thank you so very much for the help/replies!!!!! ! third party imagethird party imagethird party image

I spent some time with my grandfather this past week off and just got back. Here's what I found out today....

My temperature gauge is BROKEN! I must have somehow pinched the thermocouple lead while removing the thermocoupule itself. I checked the gauge today and it is actually stuck in between the 100-110 temp mark. It is quite possible this is a source of my worry here.

I'm dropping the oil pan tommorrow and removing some shims. that ought to fix the OP problem.

I tightened the belt but still need to scoot the alternator back some. Hugh, I'm gonna email you about those plans. Thanks!third party image

George, I will be removing the head of the Touch Control unit tommorrow to check it out. I will see how dirty it is and will clean it thouroughly. Hopefully I will find it's just dirty, if not I guess I will start replacing O-rings again!third party image
I just picked up a flywheel cover AND a sickle mower for my M (will post pics in a bit) this past week. Now I have a timing pointer and will be timing it to specs soon!!!!
BIG THANKS AGAIN DEAR TRACTOR BRETHEREN! third party imagethird party image

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Hobo,NC

09-01-2007 18:54:29




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 Re: Got another funky problem with my l'il put-putter 100... in reply to Patrick Martin, 08-30-2007 20:52:49  
Hummm were does one start


1))) 15-20psi to like 5-10psi when at full operating temp.

you can live with that but no zero

2))) in the span of this two minute period I glanced at the gauge and noticed it was already peaked at 160"ish".

Should be telling us something, even if the water pump belt was off and full of water i don't think it would git that high that quick, jury is still out on that one

3))) Today I added more coolant

Why did you have to add more coolant did you just not fill it up 2 times

4))) It usually takes a few passes around the yard just to get it to operating temp and that was 110 degrees or just under it, it seemed

Seams right to me

5))) I'm thinking it'll clear up now that the radiator is full (thought I might have a bubble or something

Need to verify that, may Be telling you something

6))) it picks it up halfway then sinks back down.

jury is still out on that one

7))) I get ready to make a turn then spin around and glance at my gauges only to find my touch control temperature gauge is at 230 degrees and slowly climbing!!!!! !!

I have no idea what the temps run sept i spec its on the high side to a little above normal

8))) My oil pressure is ZERO and my engine temp is up to 190 degrees and I nearly had 0psi oil pressure!!!

When you work'em they will run that hot, 190 is not 2 hot, normal to me. if O/P is zero @ 190 you have O/P problems for sure. Yes O/P will fall some but not to zero.

9))) Now all this time while I was mowing and all of this ruckuss was happening she never missed a lick and made NO funny noises, thumps, or anything. Only thing I can say that spunded funny is that once I engaged the PTO with a load on it it did try to die and then over rev. Once we got going she smoothed out. I figure this is more a governor problem than anything else.

maybe so, jury is still out on this'n also but it don't figger in on your other problems

10))) As for the engine temp I am thinking three things. The water pump isn't turning enough

very possible, belt needs to b tight enuff to turn the pump and fan, I think you should have a 3/4" belt check. Check to make sure the radiator is not plugged up with debris. (Alternator belt has nuttin to do with the fact that it may be runing hot, you could throw the alt away it would not make it run hot)

10-B))) the timing is off

For sure,,,, you do not set the timing at idle if you are going by ear, the engine needs to be turned up to maximum operating RPM to adjust by ear. Or in other words were you expect it to perform best.

10-C))) the internal bypassing of the touch control unit strained the engine and caused overheating.

Not likely, jury is still out on this'n also

11))) The water pump is BRAND NEW from this site. I wouldn't have wasted time with trying to salvage my old one given the price. The belt is what I suspect here. Each time I start up I have to wait a few minutes for it to stop squealing.

Well new does not necessarily make it right but neither does a squealing belt, git that belt right no squealing

12))) I have no problems afterwads. I know I needed to fix this but I was figuring low RPM engine

Makes no difference low RPM engines need a tight belt, good working cooling system also, more you work it hard run'n a hog, bout as hard a work as you will do with a tractor.

13))) Am I totally wrong here?

Not out to make any one wrong, you have thrown out a lot of info, go back and answer some of the questions. I am trying to figger out just were you need to start, loose belt, timing, would be a start. I will give you credit for the good description of the problem and the willingness to find the problem. take it one step at a time, link back to this post if you git stumped so it can be used for reference. I would like to see the one 'bout the thermostat, I don't check here often, this forum goes rite quick so its EZ to miss a post. The replys you have already got are good'ns by the best, good luck.


Third Party Image

9)))

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karl f

08-31-2007 16:54:31




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 Re: Got another funky problem with my l'il put-putter 100... in reply to Patrick Martin, 08-30-2007 20:52:49  
your timing may be off, i recommend getting a light to know for sure. usually if they run really smooth, they just may be retarded too much.

good luck karl f



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Hugh MacKay

08-31-2007 03:37:17




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 Re: Got another funky problem with my l'il put-putter 100... in reply to Patrick Martin, 08-30-2007 20:52:49  
Patrick: Your assumption of the cooling system being similar is right but there are enough differences, the pump must work properly with a tight belt. Two items wrong with your assumption, the water pump will slow coolant flow if not turning up to speed. Your pump is probably turning slow all the time, it only squeals when cold. Your Farmall 100 will also have the water pump type head gasket, smaller ports, thus coolant must be pumped through. Are you sure the thermostat is working properly? Thermosyphon systems have none of these to slow coolant, it works because there is free flow.

Your hydraulic problem is likely dirt, however I would check into lever adjustment before taking it apart. I'd have to check my Blue Ribbon service manual for advice on this, and it's packed away until about Sept 10th. How many hours have you operated the tractor since having the touch control apart? You may be just now getting rid of some air in the system. Hydraulic valve function is the only way to exspell air from the system, and in the case on this vintage Farmall with small reservoirs, oil addition may be necessary as air comes out. I couldn't begin to count the number of times, lifetime, I thought I had hydraulic problems after working on the system, and it turned out to be air. The cure was sit there and operate the hydraulics, taking care to make sure there is enough oil to replace the air.

If you need a good alternator mount I'll send you a photo, with a few instructions. If you have fast hitch and want 3 point conversion. I can sell that to you, or I sell you a detailed set of mail out drawings, photos and list of materials, from which any good fabricator will build you a 3 point that will lift 800lbs, and that is convertable from 1 point fast hitch to 3 point hitch in less than 5 minutes and without the use of wrenches. Or I can e mail you a couple of photos for nothing, you build a hitch, and then tell me it wont work as well as mine.

You have a good Labor Day weekend.

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georgeky

08-30-2007 21:48:28




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 Re: Got another funky problem with my l'il put-putter 100... in reply to Patrick Martin, 08-30-2007 20:52:49  
Patrick, that is quite an article you wrote there. First you need the belt or belts tightened properly. I don't think the hydraulic system is causing you temp trouble. It may need a good flushing, but tightening that belt is a must. You may have a blockage in the touch control orifice screen or the regulator valve. Could just be full of crud and need a good cleaning. If your control levers are at the end of their stroke either top or bottom it could need the stop clips adjusted. I would think you could hear the pump whining a little and even laboring the engine a bit. I think once you get it cooled off your oil pressure will improve some. I need to read your post again and see what I may have missed, but you will just have to investigate all these things.

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