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404 C135 oil pressure?

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JSharp

09-17-2007 09:36:12




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I have a C135 engine in a 404 and I'm getting a flickering oil pressure light at low speeds and a solid light at low idle. I'm going to install a new pressure switch tonight and check the actual pressure with a gauge. I'm wondering what I should expect to see.

I don't imagine these engines carry much pressure at idle but I've no idea what the minimum should be before I should worry.

As always, help is appreciated!

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JSharp

09-23-2007 17:59:26




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 Re: 404 C135 oil pressure? in reply to JSharp, 09-17-2007 09:36:12  
All fixed !

Good call on the pump guys. The pump cover was warped and 1/4 of the gasket was completely gone. The pump screws didn't seem any too tight either. It appeared that someone had worked on the pump before. Plenty of gouges in the parts from the last crude attempt to make things right.
I sanded the pump face and cover flat with 400 grit paper and put it back together with blue loctite on the bolts.
I haven't put a pressure gauge on the engine yet but the idiot light is totally off at 650 RPM. My guess is things are all better now. Once I get a gauge on it I suppose I'll be able to tell if any damage was done. I've no idea how long the previous owner ran it this way...

Anyway, thanks guys for the help on this! Now onto the remaining 50 things to fix next on the tractor.third party image

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JSharp

09-18-2007 05:07:57




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 Re: 404 C135 oil pressure? in reply to JSharp, 09-17-2007 09:36:12  
You guys are a great help!

I'll let everyone know what I find once I get the pan off and the pump out. TractormanNC, the idea about making a plate is a good one if the pump is bowed. I'll have to see what the parts look like once I get them in my hand.

Anyone have a suggestion for what to use as gasket sealer once I get the pump parts flat?



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TractormanNC

09-17-2007 18:20:53




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 Re: 404 C135 oil pressure? in reply to JSharp, 09-17-2007 09:36:12  

As ShaggyM says, it could be your oil pump. The pot metal bottom is notorious for bowing. Had to take .014 off of one to make it flat so the gasket would stay in place. You might make a reinforcing plate to go across the oil pump cover to keep it from bowing out. Don't know what the spec is, but with theoil pump in good condition and rod/main bearing clearances in tolerance, it should hold 30 to 40 psi hot and idling and 50 to 55 psi at full throttle.

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JSharp

09-17-2007 11:38:50




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 Re: 404 C135 oil pressure? in reply to JSharp, 09-17-2007 09:36:12  
I have a new pump gasket on order from the IH dealer. Since the oil pan gasket is leaking I suppose it's good time to fix it. I can pull the pump at the same time. The pump looks like it drops right out with 2 bolts once the pan is off.



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ShaggyM

09-17-2007 11:29:21




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 Re: 404 C135 oil pressure? in reply to JSharp, 09-17-2007 09:36:12  
It could be your oil pump. There is a thin paper gasket between the cast body of the pump and the pot metal (or aluminum) bottom. These gasket blow out sometimes and you need to get the pump out and take the bottom off and flatten it out and replace the gasket. You oil pressure should be better.



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JSharp

09-17-2007 10:49:28




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 Re: 404 C135 oil pressure? in reply to JSharp, 09-17-2007 09:36:12  
Thanks Chadd.

I just got this tractor a couple of weeks back and the oil pressure bulb was burned out. Replacing the bulb I was greeted with this problem.

I'm going to change the oil and filter since the oil looks pretty diluted, and install a gauge to see what I really have. The 404 doesn't have a gauge, just the idiot light. I saw the max pressure listed in the manual but no minimum noted, even in the service manual.
The engine has just few hundred hours since it was supposedly gone through by an IH dealer. It starts easily, doesn't smoke or have any visible blow-by even when warm. But unless the pressure switch is just sticky, it does have low oil pressure. This got me wondering about the block after I saw how it was constructed, or possibly a problem with the oil pump itself.

I guess I won't know what I really have until I put a gauge on it...

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chadd

09-17-2007 10:14:37




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 Re: 404 C135 oil pressure? in reply to JSharp, 09-17-2007 09:36:12  
I have a C-153 in a combine, which is kinda like the C-135's big brother. With new 30W oil, I saw a little over the middle line on the gauge, which I believe is approximately 40 psig. At wide open throttle it was about 55 to 60 psig(not quite 6 lines from zero). With the old oil that was extremely thinned out from use, it was about 25 psig at idle and about 40 psig at wide open throttle. If I remember correctly from the owners manual, the minimum pressure for engine lubrication is above 2 lines from zero on the IH gauge at 200 rpm above idle. The combine doesn't have a tachometer, so that doesn't help me much. . .

Unfortunately, from what I have heard, these motors, when aged, tend to display low oil pressure problems relating to cam bearing wear. Also unfortunately, all cam supports but the front are bored directly in the block. If they are worn, either the block is junk or you will need to have the holes overbored and have custom made bushings pressed in. I have no idea what pressure that pressure sending unit requires, so you will have to hook up a gauge to find out what you have.

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