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444 advice needed (sorry - long post)

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Casstuba

10-02-2007 14:45:04




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I have a couple of issues- after I got the tractor running the last time, she increseingly got harder and harder to start, until now, it will not start at all. I removed the carburetor (again) and seems that there are parts missing according to the IT manual I have. for example, the spring between the float and the needle valve, and the shut off solenoid. I also had replaced the points and condenser, which made it fire in the first place. I have readjusted the points, tried timing it, and had adjusted the valves during my last mechanic experience. After I had cleaned the carb and put in the new points, I adjusted the timing to what seemed to run very well by ear. but, i think was running rich.

Now if I try to start it, it floods. Also, let me explain the carb. It never had the shut off solenoid since I have had it - it ran well for a while, and I discovered the missing spring this time I pulled it apart. The screen is new into the carb. the gasket between the 2 halves has a rip in it, but did not seem to cause a leak. the gasket attaching it to the manifold is shot, and did leak when I tried to start it. There is strong suction when I hold my hand over the air inlet when trying to start.

To address the spark issue, I am not sure it is getting a strong spark either. If I pull a wire and ground it, while cranking, I get a spark that is yellow, sometimes blue - that will jump around 1/8 to 1/4 inch. The points, wires, condensor, cap, rotor, and coil are all new.
there is some play in the distributor shaft, but it seems the contact points are wide enough to handle some play.

Could this be an issue of:

Voltage regulator

stuck float / needle valve bad

too much play in distributor shaft

faulty coil

Or should I consider electronic ignition, or rebuilt carb.

I am stuck... and now that the school year has started, and I am in the middle of Marching Band season (teaching and judging) I have little time to play and want it running for the last couple of mowings and the eventual snow fall (even though a 4 inch snowfall cripples Delaware for days... LOL) I want to be ready.

any advice is appreciated

thanks, Brian

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Casstuba

10-04-2007 02:51:43




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 Re: 444 advice needed (sorry - long post) in reply to Casstuba, 10-02-2007 14:45:04  
thanks for the info - I'll try your suggestions hopefully this weekend. Brian



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Casstuba

10-03-2007 13:26:09




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 Re: 444 advice needed (sorry - long post) in reply to Casstuba, 10-02-2007 14:45:04  
thank you both tractorvet and Owen for your replies

Yes, it does have an electric fuel pump from the bowl to the carb. That functions just fine, I get a steady fuel flow.
The original time it quit, it had been firing just fine - right away with no choke. It began to develop a miss at high idle when I was mowing, and got worse and worse the next couple of times I tried to start it. (that was after the new coil, back in July) I then replaced the brass filter and the inline filter, pulled and cleaned the carb, and then discovered... after an $11 set of points and condenser, that it fired up. It just never started great after that, was very difficult. Can that leak where it seats to the manifold really cause all of this?

I know that I have a lot to learn yet, I haven't really been around these machines in 20 years, since my family had to sell the farm in 1987. Actually, we didn't have a gasser since 1982 or 83, when they bought the 484 diesel to replace the 444. even Dad is having trouble remembering what things they did to keep her running. Unfortunately for the timing, my timing light is too short to reach the battery and around to the timing marks, not to mention the Tach cable is broken, so I don't know the RPM's for sure anyway. Slowly, I can put money into it - and fix the next thing. =)

If they gave me the wrong coil (since it was bad when they sold me the tractor, it was free) this one needs external resistance, and the old one was too worn out to even read the numbers or words on it - could it have run flawlessly for maybe 20 hours, then within a few more hours of operation started operating really weak?

as for where the soleniod is suppoed to be, there was just a screw in the hole... nothing like an adjusting screw, just a short one set in to plug the hole. Thanks, Brian

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Owen Aaland

10-03-2007 20:43:33




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 Re: 444 advice needed (sorry - long post) in reply to Casstuba, 10-03-2007 13:26:09  
The coil you have is the correct one. Do not use a separate reisitor on it since the resistance is built into the wiring harness already. It is a good idea to check the wire between the switch and solenoid. It is a steel wire rather than copper. If you have broken strands it can cause a voltage loss at the coil when running. Starting voltage is provided by the solenoid so it should not affect starting if the wire is going bad.

Any air leak between the carb and the head will upset the fuel mixture and can cause a miss and hard starting. If the carb was a little loose when you were running the tractor that may have allowed the gasket to start to leak and cause the miss.

Since you know that you have gasket leaks that is where I would start the repairs. Fix what you know is bad first before doing anything else.

You can use jumper cables or another battery to get your timing light far enough forward to see the marks. If you are going to time it by ear you have to retard the timing some from where it runs best or you will be too far advanced and will risk scoring a piston.

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Owen Aaland

10-02-2007 16:09:09




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 Re: 444 advice needed (sorry - long post) in reply to Casstuba, 10-02-2007 14:45:04  
You probably need to start with the gaskets for the carb. Any air leaks within or between the carb and the cylinder head may cause starting problems. Make sure all internal passageways are clean in the carb. When installing the venturi, make sure that the narrowest part is installed so that it is level with the top of the main main jet. Some can be installed upside down. While holding the upper half of the carb upside down, the bottom of the float should be parallel (or very close) to the gasket surface. Inspect the gasket to make sure that no holes are blocked and there is no damage around any hole. When adjusting the float , it is better to error on the side a larger measurement that to little. Too little can cause flooding problems, too much can be overcome with a little more use of choke.

The need for the spring on the needle and float is determined by the style of needle being used. If the needle has a Viton tip and a groove on the other end it is designed for the spring. The spring allows the float to help pull the needle open if it should stick in the seat. If there is no groove on the float end of the needle then there will be no spring. Even if the needle is designed for a spring it should still work but it may stick closed sometimes.

Unless it contains the main jet, the fuel cutoff solenoid only comes into play when stopping the engine. It is there to keep the engine from running on or dieseling after being shut off. Does your carb have an adjustment screw where the solenoid should be?

Does your 444 have an electric fuel pump? My 2444 does but it may be only on the industrial models. If it has a pump can you hear it run?

When you replaced the coil did you get the correct one? Even though you will not see a resistor on the coil, it is a 6 volt unit. The resistor is the wire from the keyswitch to the "I" terminal on the starter solenoid.

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the tractor vet

10-02-2007 15:01:14




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 Re: 444 advice needed (sorry - long post) in reply to Casstuba, 10-02-2007 14:45:04  
Not tryen to be a smart arrs here but setting timing BY EAR is NOT always the best . As for the carb it may be in your best interest to have a good tractor mechanic go thru it and get it wright . and also double check your valve adjustment . A yellow spark can be a weak coil or condenser , but normaly a condenser is either good or bad.



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