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Farmall 300 12V electrical question

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KSfarmmer

10-24-2007 12:11:30




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My 300 was converted to 12V before I bought it. Looks like a normal alternator, must have built in regulator since the original is bypassed. Well it wouldn't start the other day. Battery seemed strong since it turned starter over pretty well, but I guessing it's the original starter. Fuel is good, but no spark at the plugs or coming out of the coil. Checked the coil and it only had a little over 5 volts, looks like it has a dropping resistor. I'm charging the battery since it only showed about 12.0 volts. I've heard you need a strong battery for the coil to work, think the low voltage on the battery is the problem? Or is the points or condenser? How do you check points, just make sure they are clean and opening the correct gap? What next if the battery is not the problem? Thanks for the help.

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KSfarmmer

10-24-2007 16:23:12




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 Re: Update: Farmall 300 12V electrical question in reply to KSfarmmer, 10-24-2007 12:11:30  
Well, I charged the battery and I did get it to start. Ran rough and died and couldn't get it to restart. Good spark coming off the coil now, but I did notice the battery is still charging several amps off the charger. Still only 12.5 volts at the battery and little under 6V at the coil. A good battery should be 13.2 volts, 2.2 per cell. I need to check the plugs next, one more question. When I worked on it the other day I noticed there is a set screw adjustment that allows the distributor to rotate, this was loose. I tried get it back where is was. I assume this sets the timing of the spark from TDC. Not sure how to set this, is a dwell meter required? I don't have one. Other suggestions??

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John T PS

10-24-2007 17:55:19




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 Re: Update: Farmall 300 12V electrical question in reply to KSfarmmer, 10-24-2007 16:23:12  
Thats 2.1 volts per cell = 12.6 volts if charged and setting idle (NOT on any charge system) so that 12.5 dont sound all that bad especially if the meter isnt perfect accurate. Similar, 6 volts on the coil is certainly sufficient for a good spark sooooo oo I dont see low voltage as any cause of poor spark for now at least.....

To static start time a distributor I get No 1 cylinder at TDC on its compression power stroke,,,,, ,,rotate the distributor to RETARD the spark,,,,, ,,,,have the No. 1 plug removed but its wire attached n side grounded,,,,, ,,turn on the ignition,,,,, ,,slowly advance the distributor timing till the plug fires,,,,, ,,lock the distributor down. Then a timing light when running ought to show the spark steadily advancing as RPM is increased.

Check point gap, clean or replace points if badly burned or pitted,,,,, ,change spark plugs if you havent already and they are burned or fouled or badly carboned or oiled up,,,,, ,,,insure the distributor advance works correct and that theres no cracks or moisture or other cap problems,,,,, ,,,,you may just need new points or the cap has a problem or moisture in it or you need plugs or wires assuming the fuel n carb are all okay????? ???

John T Im NOT an IHC guy so take this fer what you paid as its worth i.e NOTHING lol

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Jossette

10-24-2007 14:38:44




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 Re: Farmall 300 12V electrical question in reply to KSfarmmer, 10-24-2007 12:11:30  
third party image

jh



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El Toro

10-24-2007 13:24:36




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 Re: Farmall 300 12V electrical question in reply to KSfarmmer, 10-24-2007 12:11:30  
I would run a separate hot wire from the battery to the coil and then see if the engine will start. It may be the ballast resistor. Hal



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John T PS

10-24-2007 13:16:33




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 Re: Farmall 300 12V electrical question in reply to KSfarmmer, 10-24-2007 12:11:30  
KS, Its true a good charged battery ought to read 12.6 volts and there should be more like at least 5.5 to 7 or so volts at the coil when using an external ballast resistor system with a 6 volt coil on a 12 volt tractor (with good points closed but still depends on coil and ballast ohms) BUTTTTT T it takes a decent voltmeter and good connections to get those exact readings and although yours may not be exactly perfect, IT SHOULD STILL FIRE THE PLUGS BASED ON WHAT YOU SAY
i.e. a slight low voltage shouldnt cause her not to fire at alllll lllll l As Carl said in the movie Sling Blade,,,,"ITS PROBABLY THE POINTS" Id check their gap and clean/buff/polish them n see if she fires then. Another common problem might be the condensor but try the easy simple cheap fixes FIRST

If not and this is wayyyyy yy more then you need, you can work through my Troubleshooting Procedure for non spark n it will show where the problem is


TROUBLESHOOTING A BATTERY POWERED EXTERNAL COIL TYPE IGNITION SYSTEM:

PRELIMINARY CHECKS:

(A) To see if it happens to be a cap n rotor problem and to see if at least the coil is firing, remove the coil wire from the distributor (leave coil end intact) and place its bare end to within 1/8 inch from tractor iron, turn her on n crank her over, and see if she jumps that gap with a good visible blue spark????? If so but the plug wire ends (from wire end to 1/8 inch to frame) or the plugs themselves don’t fire, its a cap n rotor or plug wire problem. If the coil wire isnt even sparking, see below.

(B) Next open the cap and see that the points are gapped correct and indeed opening and closing as the engine is cranked and the distributor shaft rotates and MAKE SURE THEY ARE NOT BURNED OR PITTED OR CARBONED UP BADLY !!!!! !!!!! If so, running a point file between them to clean them up might make her run again HOWEVER that’s only a temporary cure, so if that cleaning makes her spark, INSTALL N GAP NEW POINTS. In the event they appear good but only gray oxide coated, non abrasively clean/buff/polish them using say a dollar bill or shop cloth etc. and see what happens.

MORE TROUBLESHOOTING IF ALL THE ABOVE STILL FAILS TO MAKE HER SPARK

1) THE VERY FIRST THING YOU GOTTA HAVE is voltage to be present on the coils high supply (NOT to distributor) terminal when you turn the Ignition switch ON. If not she cant ever fire, but in the event the ignition switch or circuit/wire down to the coil or any Ballast Resistor is bad or open, you can HOT WIRE it by jumping a hot ungrounded battery voltage source to the coils high input supply (NOT to distributor) side n see if she runs then???? If she fires hot wired, you could have a bad ignition switch ((That can happen, when Ignition is on, the switches IGN terminal must turn hot)),,,,, ,or an open Ballast (if it has one) or a bad/open wire from switch to coil.

If the switch is good, if you turn the ignition switch on and place a test lamp on the coils high (NOT to distributor) terminal SHE MUST LIGHT UP. If not again, look for an open Ballast Resistor (if it has one, it should read around 1.25 to 2 ohms across its terminals) or bad/open wires from the switches IGN output down to the Ballast (if it has one) and distributor.

2a) When the Ignition switch is turned on, voltage should appear on the coils high input side. That would be 6 volts on a straight 6 volt system or 12 volts on a 12 volt non external ballasted system, or around 6 volts on a 12 volt system that used a 6 volt coil plus an external Ballast Resistor and the coil is good and the points are closed and they and ALL wiring is good.

2b) To insure the coils low voltage primary winding is not bad/open, use an ohmmeter and measure its DC resistance between its lil + and -terminals. If its an open circuit (no continuity) its bad/open and will NOT work. It should measure around 1.25 to 2 ohms or so if its a 6 volt coil and maybe 2.5 to 3.5 if its a 12 volt internally ballasted coil. NOTE CAUTION have all leads and any voltage source DISCONNECTED FROM the coil for this simple primary winding continuity test. 3) Next, place your voltmeter or test lamp over on the coils other low to distributor terminal side, turn her on and crank the engine over.

4) A test lamp there should flash ON (when points are open) and OFF (when points are closed) as the engine is cranked slowly.

5a) If the lamp never comes on there, the coils primary is bad/open,,,,, ,,,,or the points are never opening,,,,, ,,,or theres a shorted/bad condensor (remove its lead to points and see if lamp comes on, if so, bad shorted condensor or its wiring),,,,, ,,or the points wire is shorted,,,,, ,,or the distributors side pass thru stud is grounded (use ohm meter to test that),,,,, ,,,or the points may have a shorted spring.

5b) If the lamp never goes off as engines cranked, the points are not closing or are bad,,,,, ,,or the wire or circuit is missing from the distributor to the points,,,,,or the distributors not well grounded to the tractor.

She cant fire the coil unless its low side is getting a conductive ground return path via closed points and then the circuit is open when the points open.

Be sure the condensor or its wiring is NOT shorted out and see if the lite comes on (when points open) with the condensor disconnected. If removing the condensor makes her spark, replace the condensor.

SUMMARY

Be sure the points are closing fully and open on high cam and ARE NOT BURNED OR PITTED OR CARBONED UP BADLY,,,,, ,theres voltage present on distributors high side at all times when ignitions on (or its a bad switch or open ballast or bad wiring to col),,,,, ,voltage on coils low side flashes on and off as distributor is cranked,,,,, ,,,condensors not bad/shorted,,,,, ,,no shorts in wires to points and no shorts in pass thru side out distributor stud,,,,, ,,coil has continuituy.

You may luck out n just need a new set of points. If the coil wire fires (see above) and the plug wire ends to 1/8 from frame but NOT the plugs, they are baddddd ddddd . Check them BOTH.

Good Luck n God Bless, post back any questions and your findings and any questions.

John T Nordhoff in Indiana, retired electrical engineer who usually lurks over on the Mother Deere boards versus over here on the “dark side”.

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old

10-24-2007 12:22:39




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 Re: Farmall 300 12V electrical question in reply to KSfarmmer, 10-24-2007 12:11:30  
Most likely that you need to clean and or replace the points. 5 volts at a 6 volt coil isn't all that bad. To do the point you remove the distubutor cap the rotor and the dust cover. Then check the points/point gap and maybe even clean or replace them. Gap is .020



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