C123 9 vs 14 bolt discussion

For anyone who doesn't have a clue what were talking about ;) the question is whether the C123 was ever updated to use a 14 bolt head as the I&T manual infers. Illustration captions and paragraph #26 on page 14 of manual IH-201 can infer that the C123 was switched over at SN 65001 to a 14 bolt head as all the C135's had. My findings have differed and that is what this is over. Hugh has stated that while working on his 140 he remembers it as having a 14 bolt head, and I have been trying to convince him it's worth a second look ;)

I decided to move this from from Scott#2's thread a couple days ago to a different title,
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And Hugh, that is definately the later 140/240 series block as you can see from the flat in the lower left picture. Count his head bolt positions... Just a gentle reminder that the I&T manual has an error.

Stan: If the IT manual is wrong, you tell us what is correct. Bear in mind I know it's between engine number 56651 and 103230. seeing is believing.

Hugh,
I was over looking at BobG's tractor today (Bob, I posted an update for you on your clutch thread several pages back) and took these pictures as it is a good case for this discussion. It is a very late 140, 1974 by SN, is a factory 12V system with engine SN-132727 and casting number 367825. It is still a 9 bolt head.

Block Casting Number 367825

Engine SN C123-132727

Left Side of Engine

9 Head bolts, 4 visable, 5 under the valve cover

Following is a repost of the info I gave you a couple years ago, I edited it a little to try and make sure things are clear, if it's not please ask:
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Below is what I have found from time in the parts books (CDROM) and actually pulling several motors apart. ---From the parts CDROM, the C123 designated block starts on the hundred series with C123-501.

C123 engine SN's 501-36000 as used in 100/200 has block 354898 and head 251172/355046* C123 36001-65000 used in 130/230 has block 366204 and head 355046/366299* C123 65001-up as used in 140/240 has block 367825 and head 366299 notes:
(*) all head casting numbers are gas(no distilates), and all are 9 bolts. Head change dates are unclear from parts book, but 251172 is as used on C/Super C, 355046 has larger valves as in 366299. I still haven't seen a 355046 yet.
- all C123's (and C135's from the 330/340) show the same head gasket, part number 366300
- new water pump design (meaning new block with the squared off front) at SN-65001
- all heads listed as 9 bolts, with a split at SN-39400 as head studs changed to head bolts.
- C135 as used in the 330/340 shows 367727 block, 366299 head with 9 bolts and head gasket 366300(same as C123's)
- C135 as used in the 404 shows 375596 block, 379240 head with 14 bolts and head gasket 383525(this is the only reference to a different head gasket which would be required)
- C135 in 404 also shows different crankshaft/rods/bearings/rear main seal retainer. ---From Engines I have torn down:
- a 230 (engine SN-39465) (block casting number verifies as above, can't read the head casting number but has large valves, looks same as 140 below) 9 bolt head;
- a 140 (eng SN-101390) (block casting verifies as above, head casting 366299). Casting date 5-25-H (1962) tractor SN-20874, 9 bolt head;
- a C135 (eng SN-128346) power unit block (casting date'T', with late style crank/rods/rear main seal), 14 bolt head.
- also had a 240 U motor here a year ago with 'E' (1959) casting date, block and head numbers matched the 140 motor. This is how I've concluded that the C123's are all 9 bolt heads and and the C135's are where the split occurred
Basically if you look between the manifold and the valve cover, on the 9 bolt head you will only see 4 bolts, while on the 14 bolt head you will see 7 bolts

Thanks,
scotty

I've never professed to being an engine man, probably have done more around engines in the past 5 years than in the previous 60. Even that has never amounted to more than adjusting valves, changing a head gasket, distributor drive gears. Prior to that it was spark plugs, points, timing advance and governors.

Now, I have a question for you and between this and my IT manual, this is probably what threw me back in 2003-04. When I got this 140, rad, water pump and the entire electrical system were toast. I recored the rad, had CaseIH rebuild the pump and went with 12 volt alternator. The 12 volt was only because I have a 12 motor on an implement. After finishing all that, I was getting exhaust puffs as though valves were open when they shouldn't be open. I had adjusted valves a couple times before, thus decided to see if I could take the puffing out of 140. I did, but had to adjust valves to C-135 specs as per the IT manual, .014 on intake an until I got to .018 on exhaust valves I still had the puff. The gap on exhaust valves still remains between .018 and .020. IT calls for .014 both intake and exhaust on all C-123 applications and .014 intake, .020 on exhaust for C-135 in 404 and 2404. Has the IT manual more mistakes than just the 65000 engine serial split.

I'd like your comments, bear in mind my 140 had been parked in a heated warehouse close to 15 years before we got it. My son knew it was there and tried several times to buy it. The 3 brothers that owned it had not been able to get it going in 15 years, even told us they had 3 different pro mechanics work on it. My neighbor and I went there armed with fully charged heavy 12 volt battery, fresh gas, points, condenser, rotor, cap, plugs, etc. We had it going in less than 5 minutes, and kept it going long enough to load plow, disk and tractor. I never did get it going again until I did all the above. After I got it running well, my judgement, this tractor had less than 500 hours lifetime. I base this on the number of new tractors I had lifetime. I have problaly worked the tractor 250 hour since, and no more valve puffing. Your comments are apreciated.

One other note is that you switched to a 12V system. Did you add a ballast resistor or change to a 3 ohm (across the primaries) coil? A 6V coil would work but can break down as it heats up from the extra current and burns up your points faster...
Hope that helps, Stan(VA).

Since you insist I will take another look, especially since you pointed out seeing 4 or 7 head bolts. Last time you didn't suggest making it quite that easy, and I wasn't about to take the valve cover off a perfectly good working tractor just to prove a point on YT. TOO much Scot in me for that.