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OT AC Welding Question

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John T

11-18-2007 07:11:37




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Okay gents, like many of you Ive welded (if you use that term freely lol) for around 40 years and got things stuck together n never had any real problems buttttt ttttt t I welded my fat lil fanny off a bunch the last few weeks extending a car dolly so my Golf Cart fits in front n the car tows behind. I bet like many of you I have an all american apple pie Lincoln 230 AC Buzz Box I bought nearly 40 years ago (still works fine, cant count how many Ive seen sold at auctions) ) and Ive used 6011 or 6013 rods mostly. I was under ther impression one was for old rusty metal and the other more for good clean fresh stuff (who has that anyway lol).

Sooooo heres my observation n question..... Seems like 6013 leaves a nicer lookin smooth bead once you chip the slag off buttttt tt it dont seem to penetrate like 6011 does although it dont leave as nice of a lookin bead..... ... Im almost ready to just use 6011 cuz the 6013 seems to just surface weld and even with more heat doesnt burn deep down like 6011

Seems like years ago I tried some kind of low hydrogen 7018 but Im not sure if thats really for an AC buzz box

Sooooo educate me, talk to me n tell me what to use. Most what little I do is mild steel 1/8 to 1/2 max n not usually good clean fresh stuff, but wow that 6013 looks prettier lol Once we get this down yall can tell me how to use my cutting torch to cut thin sheet metal without it closing back up, I can cut haevier stuff but that thin stuff just flows n welds back grrrrr rrrr Then you can tell me what Oxy and LP pressures to use on my LP No 2 I believe cutting tip..... ...

Sooooo o many questiosn sooooo oo little time lol

John T

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Nat 2

11-20-2007 15:04:56




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 Re: OT AC Welding Question in reply to scotty, 11-18-2007 07:11:37  
Like someone else said, run a finish pass with 6013 (or 7018) over the 6011. I think it's pretty common for people to do that, in fact.

The 70 in 7018 is the tensile strength in 1000's of psi. 7018 is stronger than 6011, but like 6013, it doesn't penetrate as deep.

7018 is definitely "idiot rod." It can make a bad welder look good, a mediochre welder look great, and a great welder look like he did it with a TIG.

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PhilD

11-20-2007 10:52:09




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 Re: OT AC Welding Question in reply to John T, 11-18-2007 07:11:37  
6011 is used primarily on AC welding. You would not normally use 6010 on AC as it is designed for DC. Both rods are for the smae types of work. Can be used on rusty metal, but your results will not be as good as you will get rust particles in the weld (inclusions) and they weaken the weld. Both are deep penetration rods and not suited for light metal. neither one lays down a "pretty" weld, but thta is just a characteristic. I'd say use 6011 with that Buzz Box. It's probably an AC only machine. Newer models can flip to DC.

6012 and 6013 do not penetrate as deep as the others and are recommended for sheet metal. Both lay down a nice looking weld, but aren't as deep.

7018 is a low hydrogen rod and good for high strengths on implements that need a good strong weld. It must be kept very dry. Welding shops have ovens to keep to dry. You need some skill to use this rod. Best on AC.

7014 and 7024 are "iron powder" rods. They have iron powder mixed into the flux coating and it becomes part of the weld. 7024 has more powder than 7014. They are also called "drag rods" as you can rest the end on the weld and just let it melt and flow. Makes a good looking weld.

Remember, the higher the first two or three numbers, the stronger the weld material.

An old metal fab and welding teacher.

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bil b va

11-19-2007 13:08:39




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 Re: OT AC Welding Question in reply to John T, 11-18-2007 07:11:37  

some people use 6013 over 6011 to make a better looking weld . this is best for multi pass strong welds .the 6011 is a all position deep penatration quick freeze rod .



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John T Thanks Guys

11-18-2007 16:31:27




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 Re: OT AC Welding Question in reply to John T, 11-18-2007 07:11:37  
Great info just what I was lookin for, I think I will try some of those 70 series and if using 60 stick to 6011.....

PS Old, I think youre right, I forget what amperage the last tap on my welder actually is

Thanks,

John T



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RossIL

11-18-2007 14:38:21




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 Re: OT AC Welding Question in reply to John T, 11-18-2007 07:11:37  
Here's a great list of Lincoln's rods-what tensile strength, ac/dc etc Link

Hope>Link it posts right. I laminated it and it sits above my welder in my shop.



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Janicholson

11-18-2007 13:08:13




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 Re: OT AC Welding Question in reply to John T, 11-18-2007 07:11:37  
John try 7014 it starts easily is smooth and does well with penetration. It has higher strength than the 60 series rods and is a must do. I teach welding in my metals classes (all but laser based systems, and use 10 different stick rods including nickel, 7014 is the king for mild to medium carbon apps. JimN



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Dave S.

11-18-2007 12:32:47




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 Re: OT AC Welding Question in reply to John T, 11-18-2007 07:11:37  
John there is a 7018 rod made for AC welders that is easier to start a arc and weld with. I use it for things that require good penetration and strength. I am not at the shop but think it is a Forney brand.



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James Williams

11-18-2007 10:50:25




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 Re: OT AC Welding Question in reply to John T, 11-18-2007 07:11:37  
John,You are exactly right,6011 is a pipe rod and is best for dirty metal,It penterates better and blowing out the impurites such as rust.6013 is a light rod which is best for clean metal and will penatrate if the heat is right,7018 is a low hydrogen rod which is very strong but should be used on clean metal,it also is a good cast iron rod if used properly,but is a little hard to use if your not experenced

jimmy

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old

11-18-2007 09:38:10




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 Re: OT AC Welding Question in reply to John T, 11-18-2007 07:11:37  
John, go out and buy a box of 7014 and you will find it does a great job and a stronger weld then either the 6011 or the 6013. As far as cutting you have to find that sweet angle to hold the tip as to bolw out the metal and still be cutting. Also I'll bet that buzz box is a 250 not a 230 since I have never heard of a 230 buzz box by lincoln. I have one my self and use it all the time just built another deer stand a few days ago with it.

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billde

11-18-2007 09:36:41




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 Re: OT AC Welding Question in reply to John T, 11-18-2007 07:11:37  
Why not try 6012 it is as the number implies in between the other two. It runs a nice bead and yet penetrates well. You could also try 7014 if you need a little more strength. Eutectic also makes a number 66, but it is for clean applications.



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SteveNH

11-18-2007 09:15:05




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 Re: OT AC Welding Question in reply to John T, 11-18-2007 07:11:37  
Not sure what LP is for a cutting torch but with Oxygen and Acetylene I use 20 lb oxygen and 5 lb acetylene.

I always use 6011 with my AC welder because it seems to work with everything. As stated below - look at the welding chart and see which rods will suit your application.



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El Toro

11-18-2007 09:11:42




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 Re: OT AC Welding Question in reply to John T, 11-18-2007 07:11:37  
You may want to consider a Plasma cutter for cutting your thin metal. Stop by your local welding shop they would probably be glad to offer
you some tips. They used a lot of women during WW2 for welding ships. I read where one of the instructors selected women that did fine needle work. According to him they did such a nice job
when welding. Most of the men were drafted back then. My mom and my wife's mom both worked at a defense plant making 20mm ammo during that war.
Hal

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Willie R Adkins

11-18-2007 09:03:06




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 Re: OT AC Welding Question in reply to John T, 11-18-2007 07:11:37  
I would use the 6011 because you always grind to get a better look but use the one that will hold better so you don't have to redo .when you cut with your torch do you piont your tip the way you are cutting with thicker metal thats the way i do it to keep the metal hot while cutting but on thin metal flip the direction to help blow slag away .Someday I would like to purchase a plasma cutter they are great.

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DickelDawg

11-18-2007 08:59:43




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 Re: OT AC Welding Question in reply to John T, 11-18-2007 07:11:37  
First off, I'm not a good welder so you can take this info from there. I have an AC buzzbox and I use 7018 or what's called "Low Hydrogen" rod. Some people refer to it as "Idiot rod" which certainly applies in my case. Anyway, it's good for rusted, pitted metal but it is not high-strength so I'm not sure it would be good for your application. I use it for simple, shade-tree projects.



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Scott Rukke

11-18-2007 18:20:48




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 Re: OT AC Welding Question in reply to DickelDawg, 11-18-2007 08:59:43  
The first 2 digits of the rod is the tensile strength. So to say 7018 is not high strength is not actually correct as it would have a higher tensile strength than the 60 series rod. In this case 10,000 pounds per square inch stronger.



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Eric in IL

11-18-2007 08:57:53




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 Re: OT AC Welding Question in reply to John T, 11-18-2007 07:11:37  
The 7018 can be used with AC, DC+, and DC-. I don"t claim to be a expert, but like you I can lay down a beauty with a 6013. Like most anything I find the key is practice, practice,practice. You just have to make a mental note of the conditions when you make a nice weld and try to do it the same way next time.

Here is a link to some useful info:

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