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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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H differential minutia

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riverbend

12-07-2007 16:04:25




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I spent the afternoon poking around a not so local tractor junkyard (Gutvold's) looking for a differential for my '40 H (FBH 23854).

All the differentials they had had a spigot on either side for the inner race of the bearing to mount on.

The differential that I found in my tractor did not appear to have a spigot on the right side. There is a break at serial number 391357 and the illustrations in the parts book shows a spigot on differentials before and after the break. The bearings also change at the sn break.

Anyone familiar with H diferentials who can tell me what I should be looking for ?

The picture is what I found in my tractor -

Thanks

Greg

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Gauger

12-08-2007 06:50:32




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 Re: H differential minutia in reply to riverbend, 12-07-2007 16:04:25  
Riverbend, You should be looking for the part number before the serial number break. The only change from the early cage to the late, including right on through the Super H tractors is the diameter of the bearing journals (spigot), and of course the bearing itself. Your's is most likely an example of why they made the change. The comment concerning the bearing size is accurate however I've learned to be careful when buying standard metric bearings for high stress applications on Farmalls. The original bearings varied by the number of balls. For instance, on the SH the outer axle bearing has the same physical dimensions as the differential bearings but it has fewer balls (11 vs.16) and I am guessing does not handle as much load. I'd be curious to know how many balls are in the $81 bearing that you ordered from Case. I have a Super H differential cage assembly that I would part with for a few bucks plus shipping but you would have to return the bearing and buy 2 with the larger I.D. If the bearing you get does not have 16 balls it is probably a modern metric replacement that you could get 2 of for $80 from a bearing retailer.

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riverbend

12-08-2007 09:55:49




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 Re: H differential minutia in reply to Gauger, 12-08-2007 06:50:32  
The replacement bearing is an SKF 212, has 14 balls (vs 15 in the one on the other side), made in the USofA. 60mm ID X 110mm OD X 22mm thick.

Thanks for the offer, but I bought a differential yesterday. It is the later version with the 65mm ID spigots. I am considering returning the bearing that I just got and getting two of the ST218A bearings.

The next issue is will the 218 bearings fit in my bull pinion shaft bearing cage? The cages are different between the band brake and the disk brake models. I can not find a cross reference to a standard bearing number for a st218. When I look at SKF's bearing charts, their 65MM ID bearings come in 100 and 120mm OD.

If you (or anyone) has a bull pinion cage or differential bearing (st218) from the 358054R1/358055R1 differential case handy, I would appreciate it if you would measure the bearing OD or the ID on the differential end of the pinion cage. If it is 110 mm (4 21/64") it should (might ?)all work.

Thanks

Greg

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D Slater

12-08-2007 13:36:22




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 Re: H differential minutia in reply to riverbend, 12-08-2007 09:55:49  
If you use the differential after serial # break it takes the bull pinion and differential carrier housings from disc brake tractors, then you have to use the disc brake type bull pinion and bearing. then all the disc brake parts. A 218 bearing is between 1/4 to 1/2 inch bigger on the OD than non disc brake H. I think without looking up the bearing #, is 227 for H differential carrier bearing.



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Gauger

12-08-2007 12:07:31




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 Re: H differential minutia in reply to riverbend, 12-08-2007 09:55:49  
Trouble. The bearing is 120 O.D. I forgot about the fact that the bearing cage might be different.



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riverbend

12-08-2007 15:07:53




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 Re: H differential minutia in reply to Gauger, 12-08-2007 12:07:31  
Thanks guys. Looks like it is back to the bone yard.

Greg



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Nebraska Kirk

12-07-2007 20:58:59




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 Re: H differential minutia in reply to riverbend, 12-07-2007 16:04:25  
This is a picture of an M differential, but is of the same design as the H. You can see the shoulder that should be present on each side of the differential.

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MN Scott

12-07-2007 18:05:29




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 Re: H differential minutia in reply to riverbend, 12-07-2007 16:04:25  
I think yours is broken off, worren away. You need a shoulder on the case to hold the inner bearing race, without one there is no way for a bearing to support the differental right?



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riverbend

12-07-2007 19:07:44




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 Re: H differential minutia in reply to MN Scott, 12-07-2007 18:05:29  
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It could be broken, but it would be a pretty clean break for cast iron. It looks rough, but about half of the cage went out between the shoulder and the differential.

The new bearing ($81!) should be in tomorrow and I'll have something to compare against. The OD of the spigot on the 'new' differential is ~3/32" larger than the sleeve sticking out of the inner race.

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richardinnz

12-08-2007 00:57:22




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 Re: H differential minutia in reply to riverbend, 12-07-2007 19:07:44  
The spigot has broken off and chewed the break up. The bearing sounds expensive, were you aware that the bearings are all standard, off the shelf metric deep groove ball bearings. The whole set of bearings and seals for the complete gearbox, rear end, P.T.O. and belt pulley gearbox of my "44 H came to $570.00 (New Zealand) including tax



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MN Scott

12-07-2007 20:04:12




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 Re: H differential minutia in reply to riverbend, 12-07-2007 19:07:44  
Yup your shoulder or "spigot" is broken off the differental case. If you look carefully you will find that you can drive that broken peice out from the inner race of the bearing. A bearing is made up of an outer race. the balls, and an inner race. The bearing in your picture has the outer race, some balls, the inner race and the broken off "spigot" stuck inside the inner race.



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Nebraska Cowman

12-07-2007 16:23:33




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 Re: H differential minutia in reply to riverbend, 12-07-2007 16:04:25  
I am not sure what you mean by a spigot?
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JT

12-07-2007 16:43:43




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 Re: H differential minutia in reply to Nebraska Cowman, 12-07-2007 16:23:33  
Is that an OEM IH part or an aftermarket?



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riverbend

12-07-2007 19:09:57




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 Re: H differential minutia in reply to JT, 12-07-2007 16:43:43  
The case half has IH cast in and the 6129DA is a real IH part number ( part of 43736DA).



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Nebraska Cowman

12-07-2007 16:17:30




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 Re: H differential minutia in reply to riverbend, 12-07-2007 16:04:25  
And I found a riveted brake band. Is that a heavy loop or what?

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riverbend

12-07-2007 18:49:17




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 Re: H differential minutia in reply to Nebraska Cowman, 12-07-2007 16:17:30  
Yes. That looks right. I think that I have had at least 3, if not 4 of the top eyes open up on those new style bands.



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Nebraska Cowman

12-07-2007 16:13:35




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 Re: H differential minutia in reply to riverbend, 12-07-2007 16:04:25  
I don't know. I have a H diferential on the shelf. I'll look at it tomorrow.



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