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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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C-123 Rebuild

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Lewis

12-26-2007 16:43:46




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I am rebuilding my 130. There are too many sleeve and piston kits to choose from. Can I take the block number and know that I am getting the right sleeve kit? I already know about the difference in the two types of lower sleeve diamteters, but just trying to take the simplest easiet way to get the right parts.
Thanks!




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Stan(VA).

12-27-2007 20:59:54




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 Re: C-123 Rebuild in reply to Lewis, 12-26-2007 16:43:46  
These might help with your piston options:

third party image

130 and 140 firecraters on either side of a Tisco piston.

third party image

Stan(VA) [your resident genius/bonehead at your service third party image] I'd post a more complete response but I've got to get back to those blocks out back I'm boring out for Hugh! BTW, I got the one chrome plated for you but couldn't remember the color you wanted on the second, was that Candy Apple Red, or JD Green??? third party image

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Jim J

12-27-2007 04:29:34




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 Re: C-123 Rebuild in reply to Lewis, 12-26-2007 16:43:46  
Everyone here is making this to hard. Measure the bottom of the sleeve where the o-ring seal sets. There is two different sizes 3-5/16 and 3-7/16. A 130 should be 3-5/16



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Hugh MacKay

12-27-2007 07:05:47




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 Re: C-123 Rebuild in reply to Jim J, 12-27-2007 04:29:34  
Jim: The only folks that ever confused this issue are the boneheads that bored them to something they were not.

I've rebuilt several of these engines life time and always we were able to order and engine kit based on the block part number. If one couldn't do that, why label parts with part numbers.



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El Toro

12-27-2007 04:02:03




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 Re: C-123 Rebuild in reply to Lewis, 12-26-2007 16:43:46  
You need to measure the diameter of the old sleeves at the seal and the overall length. The diameter should be 3.4375" or 3 7/16". The length should be 7.060" or near 7 1/32". I think you can install a 3.250" sleeve kit without any machining to the block. The sleeves are thinner so the 3.250" pistons will fit. Hal



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Hugh MacKay

12-27-2007 03:15:23




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 Re: C-123 Rebuild in reply to Lewis, 12-26-2007 16:43:46  
Lewis: Go with the block part number, 130 should be 366204 R1, and unless someone has modified the block, you shouldn't have a problem. It should be 3-1/8" bore, however someone may have bored it for 3-1/4" sleeves. Then you have the genius who may have bored it for sleeves from block part 354898 R1, R2 or R3. Don't laugh, I've actually seen that recommended here at YT. 354898 block was used in SA after 310300, all SC, 100 and 200 tractors, the actual block is bored larger than 366204 block, thus all those sleeves are actually thicker than 130 sleeves. 140 also uses thiner sleeves, however that block part number is different again, 367825 R1, R2 or R3.

Years ago I would have said stick right with CaseIH for engine kits, and I may still be right. I suspect their parts for these old Farmalls are just as much aftermarket as all the rest by now.

I probably had 15 to 20 engine rebuilds on Farmalls done lifetime, all of them farmed out to outside shops. The failures used aftermarket kits in all cases. In all cases where genuine IH parts were used, the rebuilds lasted equally as well as the original engine. I would never shop for an engine kit on price alone. In fact if I were shopping for a kit for my SA, 130 or 140, right today, I'd go right to CaseIH. Don't listen to me though, as I haven't had a tractor engine rebuilt in 15 years, long time in this business.

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georgeky

12-26-2007 16:50:34




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 Re: C-123 Rebuild in reply to Lewis, 12-26-2007 16:43:46  
Yes that block number will work. As long as you get sleeves for a 123 instead of a 113 they will work. Some very late 113 blocks also take the larger sleeves for 123.



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CityBoy-McCoy

12-26-2007 16:49:47




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 Re: C-123 Rebuild in reply to Lewis, 12-26-2007 16:43:46  
The simplest and easiest way to get the right parts is to let your machine shop (the one boiling your block and freshening your head) to select the sleeve/piston kit for you. If he gets the wrong kit, you'll never know, since he'll send it back and get the right one.....
mike durhan



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georgeky

12-26-2007 16:52:30




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 Re: C-123 Rebuild in reply to CityBoy-McCoy, 12-26-2007 16:49:47  
Mike, not all of us send blocks or good heads out for unneeded service.



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Keith-OR

12-26-2007 20:58:14




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 Re: C-123 Rebuild in reply to georgeky, 12-26-2007 16:52:30  
Yep I agree George, most of these old tractors were designed not to require much machining, Most of the towns back when most of these old tractor were in use, did not have a engine type machine shop. Tractors were designed so the farmer could do most of the repairs in the field or major work in his barn. Lot of farms were miles from town let alone machine shop. When I was growing up the closest machine shop was over 50 miles away, we couldn't afford to drive there too often or have tractor tied up for week or more getting machine work done!!!

I own a set of micrometers so I do alot of my own measurements. Also do my own valves as friend has a valve grind setup along with seat cutters and stones.

Keith & Shawn(Special Olympic Champion)

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georgeky

12-26-2007 21:04:56




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 Re: C-123 Rebuild in reply to Keith-OR, 12-26-2007 20:58:14  
Hi Kieth& Shawn, I do my own valve work here too. Got a cousin that mills heads for me when needed. Very seldom ever need any head work done though. I did put hardened seats in most of them about 20 years ago.



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CityBoy-McCoy

12-26-2007 16:56:27




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 Re: C-123 Rebuild in reply to georgeky, 12-26-2007 16:52:30  
True.



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CityBoy-McCoy

12-26-2007 16:59:57




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 Re: C-123 Rebuild in reply to CityBoy-McCoy, 12-26-2007 16:56:27  
And, not all of us send them out for needed service either. mike



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georgeky

12-26-2007 19:17:52




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 Re: C-123 Rebuild in reply to CityBoy-McCoy, 12-26-2007 16:59:57  
Yep, I never send anything out until it has drawn it's last breath. Of course I do inspect everything, and usually know what is wrong to start with. With a new old machine it does pay to have everything checked out at the machine shop. Man it has got to where it cost so daggone much to get anything done it really limits some of my projects. I will take the head off the 450D to town when I get started on it, but I haven't used it enough to know what it may or may not need. All the rest of mine I have used for years, and pretty well know when something just isn't right on those. I am afraid to see what this 450 will cost. It should make a nice old tractor though. The power steering will take some getting use to. Never had that on an old Farmall before.

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Lewis

12-27-2007 15:42:48




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 Re: C-123 Rebuild in reply to georgeky, 12-26-2007 19:17:52  
Thanks for all the responses! The block number is indeed 366204 R1 with what is supposed to be the 3.125" pistons, but they are not flat top pistons. The problem is the sleeves are worn so bad it is smoking severely. At first, I thought I might "get by" with just rings; it holds good oil pressure, but now I know that only rings won't help. Again, thanks for all the help. Too bad I can't find just the sleeves; I think that is what georgeky is looking for also.
Lewis

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georgeky

12-27-2007 18:28:14




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 Re: C-123 Rebuild in reply to Lewis, 12-27-2007 15:42:48  
Lewis, they say just sleeves are available from Clevite dealers.



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Lewis

12-27-2007 18:43:50




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 Re: C-123 Rebuild in reply to georgeky, 12-27-2007 18:28:14  
Thanks,
Matter of fact, I have several sets of old pistons and sleeves; in both sleeve diameters but I don't know whether any of them are any good. I removed them from various A's, Super A's, etc. that I have had over the years.



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