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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Super H ; The plot thickens

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GeneMO

12-30-2007 19:11:54




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I just keep getting in deeper on this thing. The engine was running when I bought this thing, but I never ran it over 15 or 20 minutes. I planned on painting and fixing a few things. Didn't plan on getting into the engine. Split it to fix bad seals, clutch etc. Now I have the head off. Oil pan off. All the seals need to be replaced, front and rear main seals. Found a burned valve, so the head is going to the shop.

My question is. I am so far into this thing, I am going to take the front bolster and radiator off to clean and paint, and want to take the frame rails off to clean and paint in back of. Since I am so far in, what would you guys do as far as rings, honing the cylinder walls, etc.?

I cannot feel much of a step in the walls of the cylinder. I want this tractor to be reliable, but will never work it hard. This is really a hobby thing and I know I am getting more $$ into it than it will be worth. But I cannot stand to put something together if it is not right. On the other hand I dont want to tear into something and fix things just for the heck of it, if not necessary. Does that make any sense?

Thanks, Gene

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MN Rick

12-31-2007 07:07:37




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 Re: Super H ; The plot thickens in reply to GeneMO, 12-30-2007 19:11:54  
Interesting debate going on down there. Both sides are right, the only question that remains is....what is RIGHT for you? I've always tried to err on the safe side and go with new sleeves and pistons. That being said, as I get older and look back, it looks to me like I've wasted some money. If the tractor didnt smoke or use oil and if the cylinders are not scored up, drop a bearing or 2 and take a look. If bearings are not scuffed and worn, rings should still be decent as well. At that point, you have simply done a valve job and took a look at the lower end and tightened up some leaks. You do run a slight risk of the tractor sucking oil past the rings, but even if it does use a little oil, as long as it doesnt smoke, you can afford to buy a little oil. That being said, if you even suspect you may end up asking the tractor to work for a living, then there would be no question in my mind but to go with sleeves and pistons, rods and mains. The comment below about micrometers and guages is spot on. Lots of good parts that are within working specs get thrown away every day. Unfortunately, I have been guilty of that as well.

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MN Scott

12-31-2007 15:59:36




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 Re: Super H ; The plot thickens in reply to MN Rick, 12-31-2007 07:07:37  
Yep your totally right Rick. Everyone has a differant situation and use for their machine. If Mr. Keith would have read my first post I stated if the motor did not smoke and did not use oil and the bearings looked good then install new seals and button it up. It most likely will run for years given GeneMO's stated use for the tractor. On the other hand if the cylinders are badly worn with a large ridge on the top of the sleeve then it is best to go the new part way if he wants to work it and have it last. I know some people just want to get a tractor to run to drive around and go to shows and it dosn't matter if it smokes. Thats fine with me and it works for them, no use putting a bunch of money into something thats not going to be worked.

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glennster

12-30-2007 19:44:25




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 Re: Super H ; The plot thickens in reply to GeneMO, 12-30-2007 19:11:54  
gene, i dug somthin out of the barn for you today. its a quincy, 7.5 hp 3phase, i think its 25-30 cfm, 175psi, 120 gallon tank. found the pump for it too, but the pump has a rod knock. you can trade the pump in on a rebuilt. motor is as baldor, motor is good, also had the magnetic starter still on it. been quite a while since i looked at this one. c'mon up and get it, i will take it to the shop in yorkville, it will fit in the back of a full size pickup. third party image
third party image

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GeneMO

12-30-2007 20:00:11




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 Re: Super H ; The plot thickens in reply to glennster, 12-30-2007 19:44:25  
glennster, I have to go to a meeting in Chicago in about a month. I am driving up as I am on the outs with Homeland Security now and am being stubborn and refuse to fly if I can in anyway drive. I have a full size Chevy, but it is a 4 door so has a shorter bed, and I have a tool box in it. With the tail gate down I still have 6 foot though, and I could take the tool box out.

Does that motor work? It looks like something I could work with.


Thanks for thinking of me, Gene

PS thanks for the advise on the rings. I may price a piston, sleeve, ring, set.

Thanks again,, Gene

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glennster

12-31-2007 05:37:20




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 Re: Super H ; The plot thickens in reply to GeneMO, 12-30-2007 20:00:11  
gene, the compressor is 5-1/2 feet long, so it will prolly fit in the back of the shortbed, you may need to take your tool box out. the 3 phase motor is good. be sure to bring some good tie down straps, you dont wanna drop this rascal on the highway!!! lemme know when you"ll be up this way, if you want to mapquest to get here, i am at yorkville auto body, 808 south bridge street (that is route 47) in yorkville, 60560. the number here is 630-553-7795. i"m here m-f, 8 to 5. looking forward to meeting ya!!!!!

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MN Scott

12-30-2007 19:40:32




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 Re: Super H ; The plot thickens in reply to GeneMO, 12-30-2007 19:11:54  
Well I never put new rings on old pistons in old sleeves if new sleeve piston/assemblys are avaible. In my opinion its just asking for trouble expecting the new rings to conform to the old worn parts. New sleeve piston assemblies for a Super H are very reasonable. I guess if you don't want to spend the money and it didn't smoke and had good oil pressure and your not going to use it hard I would put in the seals and button it up. And by the way if you have the pan off pull a rod and main cap and have a look at the bearings. It might need those to.

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GeneMO

12-30-2007 20:49:58




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 Re: Super H ; The plot thickens in reply to MN Scott, 12-30-2007 19:40:32  
Scott, What do you look for on the bearings? will there be a scored spot or something?


Thanks for your reply and advice.


Gene



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old

12-30-2007 21:50:31




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 Re: Super H ; The plot thickens in reply to GeneMO, 12-30-2007 20:49:58  
Easy way to check bearing surface is to run your finger nail across them. If it feels ruff in any way you need to have the crank turned or polished at least. Sort of hard to explain it



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Keith-OR

12-30-2007 23:54:39




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 Re: Super H ; The plot thickens in reply to old, 12-30-2007 21:50:31  
No need Old, if one is going to put in new pistons and sleeves cause ya don't want to put new rings on old cast pistons, no need in checking bearings. Just replace the crankshaft with a new one,as ya DON'T want to put new bearings on an old crankshaft. But since you are going use new pistons/sleeves, new crankshaft, better get a new block. Don't want all those new parts going in an old used cast iron block..Oh I forgot , need new flywheel also. List goes on!!!! So I guess I need to throw away my micrometers, caliberes, ring grove cleaner, and other specialty tools for engine rebuilding and just buy replacement engine..

This is one of my biggest beef, R&R parts, don't use tools and machines to fix and repair just throw it away,buy new.

No disrespect intended, just my rant!! lol

Keith & Shawn(Special Olympic Champion)

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MN Scott

12-31-2007 11:52:25




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 Re: Super H ; The plot thickens in reply to Keith-OR, 12-30-2007 23:54:39  
To tru up sleeves in an old gas engine you have to hone at least .010 in most cases. Gas engine sleeves always wear more at the top thus the top ridge. If you want to reuse old pistons with worn ring grooves and install new rings that are going to fit loose in the grooves and install the worn pistons with new rings in sleeves honed oversize go ahead but it is just a patch job and the engine is going to be loose and burn oil. I suppose if you could have the piston grooves remachined and oversized rings installed it would work but no one would spend all that money when new sleeves and pistons are so reasonable. By the way a Super H has cast aluminum pistons that wear much faster than pre 1950 iron pistons. As I state in my first reply it was my OPINION and everyone can do as they please. When I take the time to rebuild an engine I do it right the first time as the tractors I rebuild go to work on my farm and help earn my living, no patch job weekend hobby jobs leave my shop. All blocks are boiled out checked for straitness and corrected as required. Heads are completely rebuilt with new valves, guides and seats. Rods are resized on both ends and new pin bushings installed and fitted. Cranks are cleaned, magnafluxed, checked for straitness and reground. Cams are measured and reground if needed. I consider it money well spent as I have never had to tear down an engine again because somthing is not right and they don't smoke and burn oil either! Now thats my rant!

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Andy Martin

12-31-2007 04:51:10




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 Re: Super H ; The plot thickens in reply to Keith-OR, 12-30-2007 23:54:39  
I'm with you, Keith.

I always try to do a compression check before I tear one down. That tells you a lot.

Then if you measure the holes and plastigage the journals you ought to know what the minimum repairs are.

My gripe is all the good heads being thrown away because someone can't stand a little crack. It won't be too many years and they will get valuable unless someone starts casting them again.

I only wish there were some way to collect all the good parts being discarded by people who want their tractors to be totally new from the ground up.

I have been known to swap pistons between engines with good results after careful measuring. We rarely buy a sleeve or polish a crank, but put lots of rings and bearings in when an engine is open because the parts are cheap.

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Keith-OR

12-31-2007 08:23:32




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 Re: Super H ; The plot thickens in reply to Andy Martin, 12-31-2007 04:51:10  
Yeppers Andy, has gotten to be too many "throw aways", too many individuals with TOO deep of pockets and not enough since to repair rather than replace.

I was raised on the farm too far from town and too little money. My dad(and the times)taught me to repair, don't mickey mouse, or jerry rig it, do it right or don't do it at all. If we didn't have the equipment to do the job one of the neighbors(friends)down the road did. That was the time when neighbor helped neighbor and everyone was friends. We didn't have the disease "love of the almighty dollar". Still ranting!!! :>)

Keith & Shawn(Special Olympic Champion)

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old

12-30-2007 19:30:11




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 Re: Super H ; The plot thickens in reply to GeneMO, 12-30-2007 19:11:54  
Well since your doing the head I would also do the rings, rods and main bearings. I found a long time back if you fix the head you better do the bottom also or it will probably end up falling out on you



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