Put in a TA into an early M

I am doing some research to see what it would take to put an TA in an early M. The later M, including the MTA, 400, and 450 had higher gearing. What I would really like to be able to do is cut the speed of low gear of the old M in half so that I can run a rototiller with it.

It seems to be real popular to put a TA into a Farmall H (or at least talk about it). I thought that I could do some research that way, but there are confusing things being said on how to do it. One of the things that I read is that most people who do this kind of thing with the H will take an engine from a 300 or 350 and put in the whole engine with the TA and live Hydraulic pump. Other people are trying to say that you will need the back half of the tractor.

Has anyone on this list done this and could you give me some idea of what I will really need to make it work? My questions are, would I need to change the flywheel and if I did, are they balanced the same between an MD, 400 diesel, and 450 diesel? Would I have to change any of the housings? Would it be better to change the gearing in a newer tractor? I am assuming it would be the same process with an M as it would be with an H. So, please share your stories, too (who knows maybe I will try putting a TA into an H, too).

Thanks,
Al

I just picked up a 400 two months ago as a matter of fact. I had to give $1000 for it. Tin is in good shape, T/A and clutch are good, and the live PTO is functional. It runs like a champ but does move a little oil through the valve guides. Since I bought the 400, I haven't even looked at the M and might be selling it in the spring.

Good luck with what ever your decision is, but look at the benefits of both options before making that decision!

Billy

OK, having said that, let's get to the meat of your situation. You want a go-slow tractor. I like them too. I have a SMTA with a 560 differential, some 560 bearings, and 560 tranny gears (1st gear in particular). The TA works. The tires are 15.5 x 38. This set up gives me about 11-12 mph in top gear/high range. The rated speed of a SMTA is 16 mph. Low gear/low range on my tractor is at least 50% of low gear/low range of a SMTA. There is not much more that I can do without bolting up 660 planetary axles and wheels. That would really be "creepy". Top speed would be around 8 mph. Everything can be calculated with the parts books and knowledge of the loaded radius of the drive tires.

I don't think you need to go to this trouble. A TA equipped tractor starting with a 300 (skip 330 and 340) and going thru to 660 will run a rototiller. The 300 will run a five footer, The bigger tractors will probably run a eight footer. Bear is mind that there is a big difference between sod and previously tilled soil. Soil types make a difference too.

I guess I should have asked 2 separate questions. One on how to slow down an M and the other on repairing a Farmall H.

First of I should say that I don't want to kill another tractor to upgrade an early M.

I guess really that you are right, the best option would probably be to find a newer tractor and put the gears from another tractor or from an early M in the newer tractor. I really don't want to take apart a good running M for its gears, although I guess that I could put the gears from an SMTA into it.

The other point you made is it depends on how hard your soil is. In Arizona I think that it is like tilling rock and I would like to run a 6 foot wide counter-rotating tine tiller. From what I was told, I need at least 35 PTO horse power to run the tiller and that I won't have it with an M. If I went with the heavy duty model (which I really think I should) I would need 50 to 55 PTO horse power minimum from what they told me. I really don't know if this is true or not. Honestly, I have seen Ms and MDs run equipment that every one said there is no way it could do. I guess really looking for a 450 or 560 diesel would be more practical, but I would really rather have an SMTA with early M gears.

I really should have started this as a separate thread, but I know where there is an H that the original rear case/transmission housing has a big hole in it. If I can I am going to do my best to fix this tractor. Let's say for the sake of argument that I had a 300 transmission housing. How hard would it be to put it in the old H? Would I be able to use the axle housings, the axles and final drive from the old H or anything else? I guess that I could use the gears if they were any good.

Thanks!

As mentioned before, you can use use a Low-Low first gear on the pre TA tractors. Low-Low was not available on SMTA, 400, 450, 560, 660 because the TA made it obsolete. The kit is three gears and a new countershaft with integral gear. I think these changes also apply to the 300-460 series of tractors.

Now this is where it gets interesting. Because the six cylinder engine rotated faster than the four cylinder, IH put an altered Low-Low in that transmission as standard. The countershaft with integral gear was back. This means you can put a Low-Low into a SMTA. This is what I did. At the same time, they changed the final drive ratio. That gear set will also fit a SMTA. These two changes make it possible to create a super-slow SMTA, 400, 450; particularly first gear while in low range.

I don't think a 300 and later rear frame will go into a H. You will need to change out the center section as well to make it work. This is how you make a SHTA. I don't have as much experience with those tractors.

So, then what you are saying is just buy a newer tractor and put the gears from an earlier tractor in it adding them in matching sets. I have been looking for a Super MTA, although I would rather have a Super MDTA (don't have much hope for finding one - at least not for a reasonable price). I guess that I should wait until I get that tractor, and see how low first gear is and try it before making any changes to it.

Thanks!