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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Farmall M No Power!

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david123

01-27-2008 19:53:59




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I have a farmall M with ker/dis engine. This summer and fall ran fine, no problems. I try to start and run every week or two to keep it up over the winter.

I started it today and it started fine and runs ok, but even at the highest throttle setting it barely has enough power to move on flat ground. Also, even after running an hour and a half the temp gauge never moved and I know that it works.

Today the temperature here zoomed up to fifty. A heat wave!

I went out to start the tractor and she started right up. While letting it run I checked the fuel and noticed it was almost empty so I filled up with fresh fuel.

I also fashioned a grill guard out of cardboard and some bungees (my unit does not have shutters.)

I let it run a while and unlike the last time, the temp guage did start to move and eventually made it to the middle of the cold sector of the gauge, it never quite got to the "run" section.

I let it run a while longer and noticed a few times it started to rev up for just a second or two then went back to where it was.

I tried checking as much as I know how, Checked the oil, checked the air filter, took off the dist cap and checked the rotor and cap, checked the voltage of the battery.

By this time the engine block and the transmission casing may not have gotten "hot" but were warm to the touch, so I think this rules out ice.

I checked my tractor manual for illumination. It says to make sure on gasoline I need to set the lever on the manifold to cold rather than hot.

I looked to see if I could do that, but my manifold does not have that lever, it looks like the original manifold was replaced with the one for gasoline engines.

I checked the operation of the linkage to the governor and it seems to move properly.

I am not sure where to go next, nothing seems wrong but it still has no power when put under load.

Does anyone who knows these things better than I have any ideas?

Thank you in advance!

David

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Patrick Martin

01-31-2008 12:29:17




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 Re: Farmall M No Power! in reply to david123, 01-27-2008 19:53:59  
Governor maybe????? ?



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david123

01-28-2008 17:50:27




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 Re: Farmall M No Power! in reply to david123, 01-27-2008 19:53:59  
third party image

Ok, I tried some of the suggestions, here is what I did:

1. Removed the governor cover and checked spring. It seems ok, it's not broken or anything, or excessively weak, I moved it with my fingers and it took some effort. I attached a picture to look at, maybe there is something I am missing.

2. Tried getting it running as fast as I could and pulled out choke hard a few times to see if it dislodged anything.

3. Checked main jet screw. Tractor was a little smoky, so I leaned it out until it started to slow then backed it out till it was running smoothly.

No Luck.

Bob,it was too dark too look at doing the air cleaner, so I will have to do that tomorrow.

It starts and runs fine but does not seem like anything is wrong. At least nothing apparent to me, the tractor novice.

Tomorrow I will look at the air cleaner and see if it is dirty. I cleaned and refilled the oil just before winter started, but did not look at the pipe.

I am thinking a few things here:

1. Should I pull the fuel line and check for problems there?

2. Is there a way to actually see if the governor is pulling in and out to test it? I suspect if the governor is working, it is a carburetor/ and or fuel problem.

3. Do I need to replace and or rebuild the carburetor?

Thanks so much to everyone for your help!

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Bob Kerr

01-28-2008 21:00:08




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 Re: Farmall M No Power! in reply to david123, 01-28-2008 17:50:27  
I did the same as you at first and changed the air cleaner oil and didn"t look at the pipe, Both my M and H were dirty. The M is tougher to check since it has 14.9 tires and sits way up there. One thing you can do as far as checking the governor and the air pipe at the same time for that matter is just unhook the rubber hose at the carb and drive it. Go up a hill or put some kind of variable load on it like a grader you can raise or lower and listen, does the carb start sucking more air? If it is, then the gov is working and if it sounds the same but slows the gov is the problem. If it runs good like it should and it sucks more air when going uphill then the air pipe is clogged. You will need a flashlight to look way down inside the pipe incase a chunk of crud came loose and plugged up the bottom of the pipe. Those pips get gunk built up as they also suck in oil vapor and stuff from the gov housing and valve cover and then dust that comes in sticks to the oily film in the pipe.

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david123

02-10-2008 13:28:18




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 Re: Farmall M No Power! in reply to Bob Kerr, 01-28-2008 21:00:08  
Ok, it got warm here so I could do some work.

I checked the air intake, filter. Cleaned squeeky clean.

Drained the fuel tank, carb bowl, cleaned the sediment bowl and screen. Checked the fuel line to carburetor.

Put all that back together and checked the fuel flow at the carb. Plenty of fuel runs out.

I then took off the air breather piece above the governor and found that when the throttle is advanced, the shaft doesn't pop up and move the carburetor linkage.

To make things short (er?), I pulled the carb off and checked it, it seems ok, the butterfly moves smoothly and easily, remounted and adjusted a little and now that rod pops up like it should.

However, I am back at square one. I filled with fresh gas that I picked up today and although the governor advances and the throttle advances, I still have no power under load.

If I pull the throttle back, the engine revs up to speed but it is painfully slow.

Then as soon as a load is put on, it slows down to nothing and will die.

I am not sure which direction to turn now, as I think I have ruled out the fuel supply, the air filter, intake, and the governor.

Not sure where to go from here.

Also while fooling with it so much, now my throttle doesn't hold and is all sloppy. I notice it has a spring under the cover, should I replace that?

Thank you for your help,,

David

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david123

01-29-2008 10:38:29




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 Re: Farmall M No Power! in reply to Bob Kerr, 01-28-2008 21:00:08  
I read your post about the pipe and the additional suggestions.

The weather turned here and it"s back to really cold plus we are getting gusts up to 50mph today.

If it calms down later I will check the pipe and see if I can run it with the air cleaner disconnected and see what happens.

My tractor has a loader and normally when it is lifted, the engine should speed up to take the added load. By lifting and lowering the bucket I think it should show me whether the governor is functioning.

When I opened the governor case everything seemed right, so now I have the suspicion that it is either the air cleaner issue or the carburetor or fuel line.

I was wondering though, if you think that the problem could be ignition related? I have a magneto ignition that was totally redone before I bought the tractor. I checked the rotor, cap and points and nothing seems amiss.

I would think that if the ignition was in that bad of shape that it would be really hard to start though.

When I go to start it, I crank it for a few seconds with the choke on. Sometimes it starts then and sometimes it doesn"t. ON the second try I push the choke back in and it always starts up then. If it"s really cold I have to fiddle with the choke for a few minutes to get it running smooth.

I would think that"s pretty good for when the temp is below freezing.

This makes me think I can rule out the ignition but I am a novice with tractors and not 100% sure.
Do you think I am right about that?

Thank you for all the help, I"ll see what I can find out later and tell you what happened.

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Bob Kerr

01-29-2008 22:43:20




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 Re: Farmall M No Power! in reply to david123, 01-29-2008 10:38:29  
When I got my H and M. they both had the mixture screws way too rich and you didn"t need the choke to start them even on cold days. After I got the manuals it said pull the choke and then move it to half choke till it warmed up. Anyway I readjusted the carbs to run as lean as possible without backfiring out the carb and not sputtering when say starting to go in 5th gear. Both of them run much better since I am sure they were carboned up. As far as ignition goes I would doubt it is the problem, but you could have a weak coil but it would really carry on under full throttle loads since it is harder for the spark to jump a fully charged cylinder under compression. My 1924 Olds gave me fits with a weak coil for 8 years until I said screw it and started chaning everything to get it to run better. Did one thing at a time until it ran better and it was the coil, but it was hard to start when it got hot. Still acted up but that was spark plug related, missing out. It had short reach W18 Champions and it should have had the longer reach W20s. Man did it run sweet when I started it today while it was warm out! Speaking of that, BOY did the thermometer fall like a dizzy fat chick on a greasy floor today! went from 56 at 5 PM to 14 at 1am here in west central IN. Ground turned white from small hail and it got so cold so fast some of it didn"t have a chance to melt. Oh yeah, on my M when I run the hydraulics it doesn"t make the gov move. It has a behlen 201 pump that runs the steering and 3 point and it doesn"t ever load the engine up even if I am lifting a big log with the boom. You can load it by stepping hard on the brakes if your brakes work good, that should get the Carb to open. Do that test at several engine speeds starting from idle to mid way to high. Let me know how it goes.

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david123

01-30-2008 07:50:46




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 Re: Farmall M No Power! in reply to Bob Kerr, 01-29-2008 22:43:20  
Same thing was happening here. I am in Cheyenne, WY. Yesterday started ok, a little windy, fairly cold but sunny and clear. By the time I was headed home from work the wind was gusting to 80, the road that I use to get home and stretches of I80 were closed. (if we live out here we are allowed to use the county road even if it"s closed and we have 4wd vehicls)

I used to drive a truck for a living and ran up and down I65 through Indiana all the time and you guys get some weird weather there too.

As far as coils go, I have a magneto ignition, but from what I understand that does have a smaller, odder looking coil inside it I believe?

Mine starts up about like the manual describes, although i usually only have to use a tiny bit of choke for about ten seconds to get it to run on its own.

It was way too ugly to work on it last night, so I will try again later today and see what I can find out.

Thanks for all the help and I"ll get the next steps posted as soon as I can.

Stay warm!

David

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Bob Kerr

01-28-2008 10:13:03




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 Re: Farmall M No Power! in reply to david123, 01-27-2008 19:53:59  
I thought of something else to check. Take off the air cleaner cap get on a ladder and look down the tube and see if it isn"t clogged up with dirt.My M was packed more than half full when I got it. Just had a small opening for air to get past. If it is, take the air cleaner assembly off and turn it upside down and run something in to scrape it off and let it fall out so it doesn"t go further inside. My Kubotoa air cleaner screen got jambed full of chaffy grass just under the cap 2 years ago and had NO power the first half of summer. cleaned it off and it ran like new! I had even put a new filter in and didn"t check under the cap, I was ready to call a deisel mech! Duhh! LOL!

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david123

01-28-2008 07:44:30




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 Re: Farmall M No Power! in reply to david123, 01-27-2008 19:53:59  
Thanks everyone for the suggestions.

When I get home from work I will try these things and see, and if unsuccessful post what happened.

Bob Kerr: No, it does not sputter when I let the clutch out, it keeps running at the same speed. I haven't heard any backfiring or other large noises. I haven't looked too close at the exhaust so I'll do that.



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mkirsch

01-28-2008 05:29:28




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 Re: Farmall M No Power! in reply to r4etired, 01-27-2008 19:53:59  
Unless you're working the tractor, it won't warm up much. I wouldn't worry too much about that.

What you may be looking at is a governor issue. The governor senses load on the engine and opens or closes the throttle to maintain a constant engine RPM as much as possible. It's in that D-shaped box in front of the carburetor. Remove the cover and look for broken springs.



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dej(jed)

01-28-2008 05:10:55




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 Re: Farmall M No Power! in reply to david123, 01-27-2008 19:53:59  
I think you may have answered your own question, but missed it. I think you sucked some dirt down into the carb, when the level was low.
What you have decribed is a fuel starvation situation.



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El Toro

01-28-2008 03:44:47




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 Re: Farmall M No Power! in reply to david123, 01-27-2008 19:53:59  
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Open your main jet as shown on this old B&S carburetor. Hal



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Bob Kerr

01-27-2008 23:53:16




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 Re: Farmall M No Power! in reply to david123, 01-27-2008 19:53:59  
Does it sputter when you let the clutch out? If so it may need another turn on the main fuel screw on the carb. If it backfires out the intake then it is too lean, if black smoke in the exhaust, then too rich. Also try reving it up to high speed and then pull the choke hard for a second. Sometimes that will knock a piece of dirt loose plugging something up in the carb and get them going. You might give it a compression test also and post the results.

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