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Help! My 140 lost power, won't take a load...

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1fortyfanatic

02-04-2008 15:49:22




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Hi folks. I was pushing snow last week when my 1967 140 seemed to start missing and lost any ability to pull (or push) a load. Barely went up the slight incline to get back in the garage. Got a chance to look at it today. 1st, this happened about 1 hour after I put a new voltage regulator on it from NAPA, and yes there is oil in the crank and good oil pressure. 2nd, cleaned out the air cleaner (oil bath), put the old regulator back on (just in case), checked the distributor cap, cleaned and checked points, rotor, etc. (no magneto). Set the timing, pulled and cleaned the plugs, it sounded great. Took it out and under load the first time, it went right back to square one, RPM dropped, almost died, had no power. Any thoughts suggestions? About the only thing I haven't looked at is the carb. I need the old girl back up and working, so all input is appreciated.
Dave

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1fortyfanatic

02-08-2008 11:43:24




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 Re: Help! My 140 lost power, won't take a load... in reply to 1fortyfanatic, 02-04-2008 15:49:22  
TO all,

She is doing better, still not 100%, but doing better. Both outside plugs were wet, while the center two were dry. A new coil, condenser, points did wonders. It's a little off though, and I'm sure that I set the points too tight. It just seemed right to keep the rider on the cam rather than let the square cam smack into the rider 4 times per revolution. But, I had to turn the distributor clockwise to get it to run, way out from where it used to run.

Now, the miss seems to be gone, and about 50% power is back. Gonna adjust the points and see if that brings her back. I think I'll whack off the muffler anyway, get the valve cover off and take a look under there just to be sure. I have to tighten the leaking valve cover anyway. Been sooooo long since I even saw a set of points, so this has been educational at the least. Thanksall
Dave

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Jossette

02-07-2008 16:26:01




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 Re: Help! My 140 lost power, won't take a load... in reply to 1fortyfanatic, 02-04-2008 15:49:22  
check the governor spring if it is broke, put a bolt in it and you will have direct. check all linkages in the gov and give a good shot of Wd-40..



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Scott Rukke

02-06-2008 14:25:26




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 Re: Help! My 140 lost power, won't take a load... in reply to 1fortyfanatic, 02-04-2008 15:49:22  
This sounds exactly like what my H did recently. But in addition to no power and barely running it had a miss. Full throttle barely revved the engine and normal idle killed it. It barely moved. I pulled each wire one at a time and found one that made no difference in how it ran. Then I knew it was probably a valve or fouled plug. Pulled the valve cover and sure enough a rocker arm came off the pushrod. They'll do that when the valves get sticky which in my experience is winter time for some reason. It was an easy fix and took no more than 10 minutes.

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Mark from Michigan

02-05-2008 18:57:12




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 Re: Help! My 140 lost power, won't take a load... in reply to 1fortyfanatic, 02-04-2008 15:49:22  
If your problem truly is water in the fuel, try keeping you fuel tank full or near full. It helps limit water condensation (from the air) in the tank. You won"t have to use a much "dry gas" as a consequence. Water in gasoline from you supplier is, of course, another matter.



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TheDurk

02-05-2008 14:59:12




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 Re: Help! My 140 lost power, won't take a load... in reply to 1fortyfanatic, 02-04-2008 15:49:22  
I have had a 140 since new in 1966. Many years ago mine behaved as yours did and the problem turned out to be the spark advance had been neglected and rusted up. Idled like a champ, but no power. Best way to check is a timing strobe gun on the flywheel (I tune by ear, but use the strobe to be sure the advance is OK.) If it doesn't advance when you accelerate, time to pull the distributor and clean and lube everything while checking for broken springs, etc. Good luck!

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bc

02-05-2008 07:22:07




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 Re: Help! My 140 lost power, won't take a load... in reply to 1fortyfanatic, 02-04-2008 15:49:22  
I wouldn't rule out a weak coil and saturated plugs. I fought carb problems all fall. Even when it ran great with the carb in good shape and flowing fuel, it didn't have the power to pull up a hill in anything above low gear.

Anyway a new coil, plugs, plug wires, and points fixed it. Can't say which one fixed it but probably the coil and then the plugs in that order. I had already changed the condenser with no help but that could be your culprit. Most of my plugs were wet when they came out. I agree with one poster when I asked about it on an earlier thread that once plugs get fouled and saturated from flooding, they just never clean up and dry out. I've cleaned countless lawn mower spark plugs, even used a torch on them, with no help but a new one fired right up.

If you are having fuel starvation problems it will just quit running. Then as the carb refills, it will restart. From what I hear, a weak coil may act about the same.

Let us know what fixes it.

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1fortyfanatic

02-04-2008 17:57:08




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 Re: Help! My 140 lost power, won't take a load... in reply to j.c.n., 02-04-2008 15:49:22  

Hugh MacKay said: (quoted from post at 02:41:32 02/05/08) Dave: In addition to what Hal has said, think about the possibility of ice in the carb. My 130 has done this 3 or 4 times this winter. Had the carb off twice couldn't find anything wrong. It's not coil as it fires right up within seconds. Acts as though fuel supply is restricted. I also notice I'm getting a slow buildup of water in the sediment bowl. Finally I dumped in 1/4 cup of methyl hydrate, cured it almost instantly. It's happened twice since and each time methyl hydrate cured it very quickly. Somewhere, I'm getting water, we are having a lot of fluctuation in temperatures, above and below freezing, I'm thinking condensation is my problem.
May be since oil hit $100./ barrel earlier my refinery has increased the volume of water in the gas to make more money.
Heard a story years ago, farmer trying to squeak through some hard times, tried mixing sawdust with his horse feed. He said it worked well at low percentages of sawdust, but once he got to 40% the horse died. I'm thinking I've got .01% water, I guess an offset Farmall, just a bit more sensitive than the horse, however the Farmall will come back to life, if one corrects it's feed.
:roll:
Thanks Hal and Hugh, I'll do it. Getting a good storm right now and will need it tomorrow. What is methyl hydrate? I've always used HEET brand or STABIL as a gas dryer, same stuff? Yeah, we had a couple of nice days after a 2 week freeze, then freeze, then warm. I bet I have the same problem. Also, I ordered my free gas cap, hope it arrives soon. Thanks again guys.

dave

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Hugh MacKay

02-04-2008 19:50:28




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 Re: Help! My 140 lost power, won't take a load... in reply to 1fortyfanatic, 02-04-2008 17:57:08  
Dave: Methyl hydrate is just alcohol, and the main ingrediant in all gas line deicers. I buy it by the gallon, and keep one gallon on hand always. Same product as lock deicers, it keeps your windshield wash from freezing, back bone of air brake conditioners and used to deice your plane. It's much cheaper than all those other products too. Then there is my Scotish heritage, my ancestors always said, "look after your pennies and the dollars will look out for themselves."

This condensation issue always happens in these winters where temperatures constantly fluctuate above and below freezing. I'm not running my SA or 140 right now, however my 130 has been causing me grief. Twice in the past week the sediment bowl has been half full of water, and once they reach that half way point some of it does go on to the carb. Some will say it should disappear once temperature rises above freezing, I say not quickly, that fan is blowing cold air on the carb.

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gene bender

02-05-2008 04:30:22




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 Re: Help! My 140 lost power, won't take a load... in reply to Hugh MacKay, 02-04-2008 19:50:28  
Thats what is great about our 10%blend never have to worry about moisture in the gas cause it just dont happen.



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Hugh MacKay

02-04-2008 17:41:32




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 Re: Help! My 140 lost power, won't take a load... in reply to 1fortyfanatic, 02-04-2008 15:49:22  
Dave: In addition to what Hal has said, think about the possibility of ice in the carb. My 130 has done this 3 or 4 times this winter. Had the carb off twice couldn't find anything wrong. It's not coil as it fires right up within seconds. Acts as though fuel supply is restricted. I also notice I'm getting a slow buildup of water in the sediment bowl. Finally I dumped in 1/4 cup of methyl hydrate, cured it almost instantly. It's happened twice since and each time methyl hydrate cured it very quickly. Somewhere, I'm getting water, we are having a lot of fluctuation in temperatures, above and below freezing, I'm thinking condensation is my problem.

May be since oil hit $100./ barrel earlier my refinery has increased the volume of water in the gas to make more money.

Heard a story years ago, farmer trying to squeak through some hard times, tried mixing sawdust with his horse feed. He said it worked well at low percentages of sawdust, but once he got to 40% the horse died. I'm thinking I've got .01% water, I guess an offset Farmall, just a bit more sensitive than the horse, however the Farmall will come back to life, if one corrects it's feed.

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ScottyHOMEy

02-04-2008 18:28:03




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 Re: Help! My 140 lost power, won't take a load... in reply to Hugh MacKay, 02-04-2008 17:41:32  
Good observation, Hugh. I've had more trouble this winter and last with water in my gas than I've had in all the rest of my life.

I tend to chalk it up to condensation, the way the weather's been, and the times it made a problem, the dry gas fixed her right up.

I was asking around a while back to see if anybody else was having the same experience and opened a whole can of worms about the quality of fuel, and the effect of additives. Agreed the dry gas will get you running. But a lot of opinions on ethanol in gas from the pump and whether the ethanol or even the additives (dry gas or StaBil) would draw moisture, as they're made to absorb it. I understand the argument from that side, but also figure that they won't draw any more moisture than they can chemically absorb. Once they're saturated, they don't draw any more. Or so I would think.

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Hugh MacKay

02-04-2008 20:04:33




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 Re: Help! My 140 lost power, won't take a load... in reply to ScottyHOMEy, 02-04-2008 18:28:03  
Scotty: I find only using the tractor to plow snow, it doesn't get a whole lot of use. Then you get this repeated freeze-thaw and bingo, you've got water. Of course the deiceing ingrediant in all these products is alcohol, and these old Farmall tanks just aren't tight enough to prevent the alcohol from evaporating. So the tractor sits for two weeks waiting for the next snowfall, taking on condensation and evaporating the alcohol. Little more than trouble in a package, problem is the packaged goods move from the package, (the tank) to the carb. This never happens when temperature stays below freezing.

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a_lead

02-04-2008 18:10:59




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 Re: Help! My 140 lost power, won't take a load... in reply to Hugh MacKay, 02-04-2008 17:41:32  
Hugh:

Help me to understand how to see "the slow build-up of water in the sediment bowl".

When gas had lead in it and was pink in color, it was simple to see the water line/gas line in the bowl. But now with "white (un-leaded) gas", to me is near impossible to see the water in the bowl.

Do you still have lead in that Canadian gas, or some other type of color to be able to see the water?

Edward

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Hugh MacKay

02-04-2008 20:11:49




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 Re: Help! My 140 lost power, won't take a load... in reply to a_lead, 02-04-2008 18:10:59  
Edward: You should be able to see the water, I find it shows quite well. Maybe not quite as well as in older gas from years ago, but I have no trouble seeing it. I guess the difference is, years ago it jumped out at you, nowdays one has to look and sometimes wipe the bowl wirh a rag.



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El Toro

02-04-2008 16:14:21




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 Re: Help! My 140 lost power, won't take a load... in reply to 1fortyfanatic, 02-04-2008 15:49:22  
Remove the gas line at the carburetor and see if there's a good streanm of gas from the gas line. Hold a clean container and catch the gas. If there is a good stream of gas check the screen that's behind gas fitting for dirt. If there's
no dirt and you have good flow from the tank you probably need to clean the carburetor. Hal
PS: I would try another coil to eliminate the coil.



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