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HELP! What Wide Front is on my 504? (pictures)

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Charles Todd

02-08-2008 19:31:42




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I believe that this tractor was originaly a "tri-cycle" due to the SLOW steering ratio. It takes about 7-8 turns lock-to-lock. It has power steering, though in need of an overhaul...

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Steven f/AZ

02-09-2008 10:12:53




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 Re: HELP! What Wide Front is on my 504? (pictures) in reply to Charles Todd, 02-08-2008 19:31:42  
Looks like Schwartz to me...

This one I believe is a Speeco - notice how the angle irons make it look "open" in the front and the blocks on the tie rods. Also it looks like the steering arms are different.

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r4etired

02-09-2008 04:45:29




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 Re: HELP! What Wide Front is on my 504? (pictures) in reply to Charles Todd, 02-08-2008 19:31:42  
Normally isin't the wish bone section attached to the frame or the back of the block. How safe is this being attached by the front casting bolts only.



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Allan In NE

02-09-2008 04:59:14




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 Re: HELP! What Wide Front is on my 504? (pictures) in reply to r4etired, 02-09-2008 04:45:29  
Yep,

Don't think Schwartz even services that old tunnel mount anymore. Their (544) "picture" shows the newer separate wishbone like on a H and larger models.

However, that 504 isn't very big; doubt if it would really be an issue if the bolster bolts are kept tight.

Allan



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Allan In NE

02-09-2008 04:31:41




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 Re: HELP! What Wide Front is on my 504? (pictures) in reply to Charles Todd, 02-08-2008 19:31:42  
Charles,

Your front end is a standard issue "aftermarket" Schwartz and yes, the tractor was probably originally a trike because that was IH's basic, no-frills, off-the-shelf frontend.

Hugh is right tho. There is no different "ratios". They are all the same.

First picture is of an original IH and the second is like yours, a Schwartz, so that you can see the difference.

You might contact Rusty Farmall, I think he can get you any needed parts. Or, I can give you a toll free number straight to the company if you need it.

Might could even get you the replacement part numbers if ya scream loud enough. :>)

Allan

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IBorange in TX

02-08-2008 21:58:45




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 Re: HELP! What Wide Front is on my 504? (pictures) in reply to Charles Todd, 02-08-2008 19:31:42  
That looks like a Speeco front end. I have one under a 460. Measure the thread area of the tie rod end, I think the Speeco is 7/8inch diameter and the Schwartz is a full 1 inch diameter.
If the cup for the ball, has the plastic ring inside, you can remove them from the rods and by hammering make the opening more narrow. I just bought a set of rod ends for the Speeco, cost me $32 each. HTH
mb

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Keith in Iowa

02-08-2008 20:47:31




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 Re: HELP! What Wide Front is on my 504? (pictures) in reply to Charles Todd, 02-08-2008 19:31:42  
Well it is definitely is'nt an IH. Bottom tube, wishbone and spindles look like a heavy Schrawtz. The upper mounting bracket looks a little different though.



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Charles Todd

02-08-2008 21:03:59




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 Re: HELP! What Wide Front is on my 504? (pictures) in reply to Keith in Iowa, 02-08-2008 20:47:31  
I can post more pics of the underside. It almost seems to have had a bit of custom fabrication, but looks manufactured. I need tie rod ends in a bad kind of way, two of four have washers welded on them. The upper mount is like a box and through the center is the small piece that the tie rod end centers attach to. This setup is what has me believing that this is a wide front on a tricycle steering gear... Was that common or is there an actual wide front box with a more conservative 3-4 turn lock-to-lock box? Mostly, it just bothers me that I have no clue who manufactured it. I have seen some wide fronts of the 60's that the tie rods were in front of the tube.

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Hugh MacKay

02-09-2008 02:27:40




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 Re: HELP! What Wide Front is on my 504? (pictures) in reply to Charles Todd, 02-08-2008 21:03:59  
Charles: Steering box ratio is no different on wide front or narrow front, it's the same steering box for both.

Also Kieth has it wrong, all factory wide fronts on 240, 340, 404 and 504 had the tyrods out front. Personally I don't think you would want a factory wide front for a 504, the telescoping tubes and spindles were no heavier than on 240, 340 or 404, and that is not a whole lot heavier than a Super A. I had a 504, never measured any sizes, however parked alongside my SA, the front end looked like very similar size steel, and they would break on a Super A.

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Charles Todd

02-09-2008 07:29:03




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 Re: HELP! What Wide Front is on my 504? (pictures) in reply to Hugh MacKay, 02-09-2008 02:27:40  
Hugh, I have heard that the weaknees on these axles are the mount. I know that these (4 bolts to frame) have broken before. I think my father had drilled and tapped larger threads twice. Now it either has 9/16" or 5/8". It bothers me that the wishbone is attached to the axle mount now that I see that I am the only one whos is like this. Most others are to the frame or block. Also, the strength of this axle is going to be tested, I have a brand new Koyker 220 loader that I am planning to install in the next few weeks. Man I hope I dont trash the axle with the extra weight. The loader has a 2800 lb lift capacity. I have heard about new Schwartz's, they still in business? I plan to keep this one a while, so I am investing good parts into it. Do I need to investigate attaching the wishbone to the block? I also want to put 10"-12" flotation tires on and the Schwartz info I have on a new 504 axle says no flotation tires, only narrow rib... Help.

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Hugh MacKay

02-09-2008 14:15:55




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 Re: HELP! What Wide Front is on my 504? (pictures) in reply to Charles Todd, 02-09-2008 07:29:03  
Charles: You'll have to extend that wish bone and get a V that attaches to the engine frame rails. The 504 is a relatively small tractor by todays standards, yet it's quite large compared to a 140 or SA, and even they use a brace to the clutch housing with the industrial front end. If you put that loader on as it is, I'd be awafully concerned your going to bust things up. If you have enough counter weight on the back for loader work and one front wheel drops in a hole, it's going to break without an extended wish bone attached to the frame rails.

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Keith in Iowa

02-08-2008 21:34:04




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 Re: HELP! What Wide Front is on my 504? (pictures) in reply to Charles Todd, 02-08-2008 21:03:59  
Any of the widefronts with the steering rods in front of the axle tube are fairly old, pre 1954 in IH's anyway.I've had some wide fronts that use three bolts to fasten the steering rods, and had a couple that just used two.



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504-2

02-08-2008 21:20:56




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 Re: HELP! What Wide Front is on my 504? (pictures) in reply to Charles Todd, 02-08-2008 21:03:59  
It`s a Schrawtz just like the one on my Farmall 504. The rods in front of the axle are for H,M,C,A,B and 200. all 50s tractors. The steering turns are normal(some 60s Chevy pick ups were 9 turns lock to lock)for the 504



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I.H. parking only

02-09-2008 08:59:51




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 Re: HELP! What Wide Front is on my 504? (pictures) in reply to 504-2, 02-08-2008 21:20:56  
I dont think that is a shwartz, I think it is a speeco. The shwartz has cast arms that the tie rod end bolts to.



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