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Front Drive Hydraulics on a 504 (pictures)

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Charles Todd

02-10-2008 18:29:40

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The crank pulley on my D-188 has an odd set of directional "teeth" on it. I know that hand cranking this engine is not an option. First, what are they? Second, if it was designed for something, what? Third, can I replace the crank pulley with a 2 or 3 groove pulley or is it also the harmonic balancer? Another idea is to match drill and tap for a #40 or #50 sprocket and use a chain to drive a secondary hydraulic pump.... Ideas welcomed.

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karl f

02-11-2008 13:48:16

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Re: Front Drive Hydraulics on a 504 (pictures) in reply to Richard G., 02-10-2008 18:29:40

Steven f/AZ said: (quoted from post at 19:47:12 02/10/08)
Looks like there are some tapped holes in the pulley, right? You should be able to have a pulley machined with the holes and bolt it on there if you want to go belt drive. ..

you could also still use those holes to attatch an adaptor to a shaft with flexible couplings to a pump like i first mentioned--if there is enough room fore and aft. i'm on dial up so i'm sorry i'm not providing so many illustrations.
a source for the type of pump system i'm talking about is northern tool. never dealt with them but they have plenty of pictures of the products online and in their paper catalog. keywords would be couplings/flexible couplings and barnes cast iron hydraulic gear pump. you would be on your own to fab a pump mount and the adaptor from your crank pulley to a coupler/shaft assembly. for more from me email floor_it @ yahoo . com

for fluid source, i would mount a tank to the loader frame, otherwise there's a lot of monkeying around with plumbing and routing, most of which will drag on or near the ground just enough to get caught on something.

you do not want closed center unless money is no object. the cost of the pump, control valves and other system components will be prohibitive and require very good engineering and maintenance skills. proper gpm, pressure, cylinder selection, coupler selection, etc. with a dedicated opencenter system will work quite well for you, and be much simpler in engineering and maintaining. there are open center/closed center hybrid systems, but again that gets spendy with talent and money.
for lots of speed, a 2 stage open center pump would be neat, but the ones i've seen take up a lot of lateral space which is at a premium for you.
gotta run for now

karl f

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TractormanNC

02-11-2008 08:33:30

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Re: Front Drive Hydraulics on a 504 (pictures) in reply to Charles Todd, 02-10-2008 18:29:40

hey Charles,
A 17 GPM internal pump is/was available for these tractors, keep in mind that you lose approx 3.5 GPM topower steering if you have it. A three spool OPEN CENTER power beyond valve connected between the flow divider and the remotes may work for you. HTH
Leonard

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Charles Todd

02-11-2008 18:11:30

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Re: Front Drive Hydraulics on a 504 (pictures) in reply to TractormanNC, 02-11-2008 08:33:30

Thank you Leonard. I am leaning towards the Power Beyond setup. My power steering sucks right now anyway. I need to investigate that ASAP.

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Steven f/AZ

02-11-2008 07:19:55

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Re: Front Drive Hydraulics on a 504 (pictures) in reply to Nebraska Cowman, 02-10-2008 18:29:40

Charles Todd said: (quoted from post at 20:24:53 02/10/08) Ok, I need 12-15 GPM and would like to either use belt or chain. Chain seems the strongest, but has issues with maintenance and transmits harmonics (vibrations). This cogged belt you speak of, you mean like a poly-chain, with teeth on the pulleys and the belt, like on servo drives?

Where would I take the input (pressure side) from? Where would I send the excess (return side)? The only hose I know of is the output from the main pump feeding the tractor and remotes.

I liked the chain setup on the picture posted above.

This is what I'm talking about for cogged belt drive - the correct term is synchronous drive: Link

The chain drive above works well for that person, but it is used at low speed (1/2 throttle or less) and it is in town so they don't have to contend with any dust, mud, etc.

Personally, If I were to put a separate pump on for the loader I would purchase a reservoir/tank just for that system and keep it separate from the tractor hydraulics...

Another thought I came up with is to check on the possibility of an optional pump for the tractor... some had choices of around 9 GPM, 12 GPM and I think there was a 15 GPM pump option too. I'm not sure if that's a possibility on a 504 though.

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tn terry t

02-10-2008 20:54:48

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Re: Front Drive Hydraulics on a 504 (pictures) in reply to Charles Todd, 02-10-2008 18:29:40

hello Steven f/AZ, Charles Todd i dont know anything about a 504 but why wouldnt the stock pump handle the loader? ive used smaller tractors with loaders off the stock pump 300, 460 i might be comparing apples to oranges i duno but i am interested to know

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Charles Todd

02-10-2008 21:28:53

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Re: Front Drive Hydraulics on a 504 (pictures) in reply to tn terry t, 02-10-2008 20:54:48

Open center hydraulics are a little slow even with the 12 gpm pump. I want to add a three spool valve for just the loader instead of tying up my two remotes. I was thinking of a 15-23 gpm closed center, dedicated to the loader.

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Steven f/AZ

02-10-2008 18:47:12

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Re: Front Drive Hydraulics on a 504 (pictures) in reply to Charles Todd, 02-10-2008 18:29:40

Yes, that is designed for a hand crank. See how the ramps and hooks are? It will only engage one way and it wouldn't work to drive something with pins to catch.

Here's some examples on Hs...

third party image

Looks like there are some tapped holes in the pulley, right? You should be able to have a pulley machined with the holes and bolt it on there if you want to go belt drive. I will caution you this: I get about 14 gallons per minute from my belt drive and around 900 psi before the belt slips. If you want more than that you need to check out a cogged belt drive system...

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Charles Todd

02-10-2008 19:24:53

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Re: Front Drive Hydraulics on a 504 (pictures) in reply to Steven f/AZ, 02-10-2008 18:47:12

Ok, I need 12-15 GPM and would like to either use belt or chain. Chain seems the strongest, but has issues with maintenance and transmits harmonics (vibrations). This cogged belt you speak of, you mean like a poly-chain, with teeth on the pulleys and the belt, like on servo drives?

Where would I take the input (pressure side) from? Where would I send the excess (return side)? The only hose I know of is the output from the main pump feeding the tractor and remotes.

I liked the chain setup on the picture posted above.

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