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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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How much is too wear on ring gear?

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Paul Shuler

03-17-2008 05:20:46




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The starter on my wifes 47 cub has got to where it does not engage the ring gear hardley at all. And makes a nasty sound when it tries. I pulled the starter and the ring gear looked pretty good to me. In it's worst spot it has maybe a 16th of an inch worn off the corner of the teeth and on most of the gear there is just a little rounding on the corner of the teeth. How much is too much wear on a ring gear? I'll be getting the starter worked over while I have it off. I have some photos of the ring gear but my Epson photo account it being shut down. Will have to find another way of posting photos.
Paul

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va. transplant

03-18-2008 16:32:34




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 Re: How much is too wear on ring gear? in reply to Paul Shuler, 03-17-2008 05:20:46  
When my dad bought our 'C' in 1977, the ring gear had a bad spot on it. We had the starter worked on a couple of times, for other reasons not connected to the ring gear, and we eventually split the tractor, pulled the flywheel, applied the heat wrench to the ring gear and turned it on the flywheel about a quarter of a turn. Put it all together and it has been working great ever since.



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Hugh MacKay

03-17-2008 16:38:31




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 Re: How much is too wear on ring gear? in reply to Paul Shuler, 03-17-2008 05:20:46  
Paul: Go for the clutch type starter drive from CaseIH that Jim mentioned. They are light years ahead of the old bendix. I've had them on my SA and 130, close to 18 years now. They engage softer, will work on a ring gear that a bendix will never engage on.

Back 18 years ago I took both starters to a rebuilder. When they came home one starter worked beautifully on either tractor. The other starter would not engage on either tractor. Took them both off, Ah ha, a different type of drive that works. Back to the rebuilder. He said, "I only had one in stock, so sent over to the CaseIH dealer for the other, I'll replace that for you." I said, "The one I want you to replace is that damn bendix."

18 years ago, my ring gears were not in excellent shape, nor were they terrible. Similar to what you describe. My starters have not been off in 18 years. Since that time, I split both tractors for clutch replacement, but I did not bother to change the ring gear.

I also find, I never had a starter lock up with these clutch drives. No question they are better than what came new on the tractor. Because they engage softer, they don't damage ring gear teeth.

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Jesse

03-17-2008 08:02:32




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 Re: How much is too wear on ring gear? in reply to Paul Shuler, 03-17-2008 05:20:46  
I may be shot for saying this, but I say as long as it starts and runs, it should be no problem. A cub is easy to hand crank. Splitting a tractor to replace a ring gear is a headache. An example is that the cost of the ring gear for a Super A is about $30--a good used flywheel is about $135. A bendix costs about $40. Handcranking is easy, providing your points and plugs are good. In my case, by the time you split a tractor (like a Super A) or in your case a Cub, you have labor in it and you have to replace the fluids (hydraulic), which is costly. If you have the time then no problem. My suggestion is that if you have a hand crank, then you can use that little tractor for many more years until you have to worry with replacing the gear. At the very least, you can put a 12 volt coil on it(for that extra juice to the starter, buy a bendix ever so often..sit back, and don"t worry too much).. How much is too much wear? I agree that if all the teeth are gone, then it is time to replace it. If this was a larger tractor, then this is a whole different story.

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Hugh MacKay

03-17-2008 16:16:40




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 Re: How much is too wear on ring gear? in reply to Jesse, 03-17-2008 08:02:32  
Jesse: I'm 65 years old and can still split a Super A, change the clutch, pressure plate, release bearing and pilot bushing in 5 hours from running to running again.



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tractorsam

03-17-2008 13:51:26




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 Re: How much is too wear on ring gear? in reply to Jesse, 03-17-2008 08:02:32  
I won't disagree that hand cranking a good working tractor is usually fairly easy but it's not the solution for everyone. Splitting a tractor is not that difficult a job once you have a little bit of experience and ambition. Also you can get pretty creative on the tools required for the job. A couple of weeks ago I split a 140 with a stuck clutch and had it cleaned up and back together again within four hours. Prior to that I had replaced a frost plug behind the flywheel on a Super A which took a little over six hours because I had to remove the flywheel and it had cultivators and other such on it. When I first got into this hobby if I figured that if you had the tractor split replace all the seals and the clutch plate while you're in there. Now I just fix what really needs it because splitting it again is no big deal. tractorsam

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williamf

03-17-2008 07:42:25




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 Re: How much is too wear on ring gear? in reply to Paul Shuler, 03-17-2008 05:20:46  
third party image

This much is too much. But it's only like this at the two spots where the engine always stops. I always have the hand crank along and turn the engine a few inches every time I shut it down. Question is, how many times can I do that before it would have been less work to split the tractor and replace the ring gear? Good luck, Wm

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rustyfarmall

03-17-2008 06:54:42




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 Re: How much is too wear on ring gear? in reply to Paul Shuler, 03-17-2008 05:20:46  
I've been using photobucket for several years now. It works good.



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Bob M

03-17-2008 06:51:17




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 Re: How much is too wear on ring gear? in reply to Paul Shuler, 03-17-2008 05:20:46  
Hey Paul - If the ring gear teeth are rounded/worn a maximum of 1/16" the starter should work fine once a new pinion (bendix) is installed.

----

FWIW I've been fooling around with alternative image posting sites in anticipation of the Epson Photo shutdown. So far I think I like Photobucket the best. Punch below for a sample...)

Bob M

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Owen Aaland

03-17-2008 15:53:37




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 Re: How much is too wear on ring gear? in reply to Bob M, 03-17-2008 06:51:17  
The condition of the teeth on the starter drive is more critical that the ring gear. The taper on the drive teeth is to allow the gear to engage easily into the ring gear. Once the drive gear teeth get rounded they will more often hit directly on a ring gear tooth and keep the drive gear from fully engaging the ring gear teeth. That is when the ring gear damage occurs.



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Randy in NE

03-17-2008 10:11:14




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 Re: How much is too wear on ring gear? in reply to Bob M, 03-17-2008 06:51:17  
I usually read this board from work. For some reason our network team has block access to photobucket. Something about not being related to the natural gas industry. How rude!!!!



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Steven f/AZ

03-17-2008 10:41:20




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 Re: How much is too wear on ring gear? in reply to Randy in NE, 03-17-2008 10:11:14  

Randy in NE said: (quoted from post at 10:11:14 03/17/08) I usually read this board from work. For some reason our network team has block access to photobucket. Something about not being related to the natural gas industry. How rude!!!!


I agree, I have from time to time produced some natural gas and I put pictures on PhotoBucket. Time to speak to a manager!

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Randy in NE

03-17-2008 10:10:37




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 Re: How much is too wear on ring gear? in reply to Bob M, 03-17-2008 06:51:17  
I usually read this board from work. For some reason our network team has block access to photobucket. Something about not being related to the natural gas industry. How rude!!!!



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Paul Shuler

03-17-2008 07:56:54




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 Re: How much is too wear on ring gear? in reply to Bob M, 03-17-2008 06:51:17  
Thanks Bob, I'll give them a try.



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Steven f/AZ

03-17-2008 05:57:00




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 Re: How much is too wear on ring gear? in reply to Paul Shuler, 03-17-2008 05:20:46  
This much, is too much:

third party image

On my W-9 the mice had nested in the bell housing for about twenty years and this was the result. The starter would still work as long as the engine didn't quit with this part of the gear up...

I think your starter needs attention, perhaps a new bendix so it kicks in harder.

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Janicholson

03-17-2008 05:48:28




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 Re: How much is too wear on ring gear? in reply to Paul Shuler, 03-17-2008 05:20:46  
That should be OK. There is a replacement clutch type starter drive at CaseIH, that is better. also be sure the bushings are good. JimN



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Paul Shuler

03-17-2008 05:47:49




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 Re: How much is too much wear on ring gear? in reply to Paul Shuler, 03-17-2008 05:20:46  
Opps



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