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560 power steering issues

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560 in KS

03-25-2008 08:00:42




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hey fellas. i've got a couple questions for ya. on my 560 gas the power steering works good when the tractor's moving. when stopped/sitting still, steering is stiff, as in hardly any p/s at all. i jacked the front end up yesterday to take the weight off to check it, and you can turn the steering with one finger. is it that gearbox binding up or that little control valve right next to it? are parts available and how bad is it to rebuild either one? any thoughts or ideas? thanks.

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bc

03-25-2008 21:34:51




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 Re: 560 power steering issues in reply to 560 in KS, 03-25-2008 08:00:42  
I've been fighting about the same thing with my 2606. You can see a lot of my threads on it if you search 2606 or 606 or 2656. Took me a while to figure out what I had. The parts guys in Hutch have been very helpful to me.

Your 560 doesn't have the hand pump like mine. I looked at the picture in the book for yours but I'm not sure I understand it. My main problem turned out to be a piece of metal under the ball of the bypass in the draft control housing.

Are your hydraulics whining or squealing which might be indicative of fluid squeezing through a bypass?

One way to see if the steering cylinder is leaking internally by the seal is to turn it all the way in one direction. Then disconnect the opposite line and keep trying to turn it in that direction. If it is not leaking then nothing will come out.

While you are at it, turn it back the other way to see what kind of flow you are getting. When mine was bypassing, it just kinda spit out some fluid with hardly no psi. Then reattach the line, turn the wheels the other way and remove the other line and do the same test.

Let us know what you find out.

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560 in KS

03-27-2008 10:48:02




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 Re: 560 power steering issues in reply to bc, 03-25-2008 21:34:51  
yeah, this thing don't have an assist cylinder on the steering. it has the gearbox. i think only the utility type tractors had the cylinder didin't they? this is the farmall row crop version with wide front end. it's probably the pump isn't it?



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RR Mech

03-25-2008 20:27:59




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 Re: 560 power steering issues in reply to 560 in KS, 03-25-2008 08:00:42  
If it doesnt steer good either direction I doubt if it is bad in either the valve or the cyl.. It is probally the relief valve or the pump and on this model they are both built together. It is mounted to the back of the plate in the middle of the tractor where the one line comes from to the steering. Hope this helps. Roy



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560 in KS

03-27-2008 10:57:24




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 Re: 560 power steering issues in reply to RR Mech, 03-25-2008 20:27:59  
Hey, a fellow RR mech. I'm also a mech for the RR. yeah, this tractor has the gearbox and not the steering cylinders.farmall, not utility. full size 560. if it was the gearbox causing the problem, wouldn't it also be stiff even with the front end jacked up? it's most likely the p/s pump isn't it? any idea if the pump can be rebuilt by myself and are parts available?



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bc

03-27-2008 14:19:35




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 Re: 560 power steering issues in reply to 560 in KS, 03-27-2008 10:57:24  
I'm no expert on this but I imagine there are parts available. Depends upon how far you are from a parts supplier, what they stock, what is on backorder, and all the time and hassle of doing it yourself. It can take a long time but if you are an EMD mechanic then this may not be problem. Sometimes with the price of separate parts it is cheaper to go rebuilt. You have to be able to mike the shafts and bushings to see if in tolerance and the same for the shims. All o-rings & seals have to be replaced. You have to open it up to see if you have cessna or thompson pumps. Then the power steering pump is removable from the main pump.

You need an I & T manual #IH-25 to work through it along with printing out the parts diagrams & parts lists from the case website (www.caseih.com).

There is a small plug just below and between the two pump outlets. You can insert a 3000# guage in there to see what your working psi is. Do this with the wheels turned all the way in one direction. You should have at least 1100 psi. You can place a guage and shut off valve in the power steering line somewhere to test it. The guage is in between the pump and ball shut off valve. Close the valve to get a psi reading.

The bypass valve is attached to the power steering pump. It could be bypassing and still put out just enough fluid and psi to steer with no weight on the wheels. You have to pull the pump off to check and clean the bypass.

You can flow test your pump by pulling the power steering line off. Mark a 5 gal. bucket with a mark where a gallon and or two comes to. Then crank it up and see how many seconds it takes to pump a gallon. You should have 2.3 to 2.7 gpm at 1200 to 1500 psi (which is what the interal relief valves are set at). You might do this from the power steering return line also with wheels turned one way and then centered up to see what kind of flow you have coming out of the power steering. Little and weak flow would point back to the pump or probably the relief valve at the pump.

You didn't say whether the steering problem just happened or if there has been a steady decline over the years. A pump probably won't just up and go bad unless something was run through it and then both pumps would probably have problems. There would be a decline over the years with a bad pump. Working fine and then recently going bad points to a bypass or other problem and not probably the pump. But with any old pump there will be some decline since it was a brand new one.

You could also run a line from the other pump and go into the power steering to see if you have steering or not.

Let us know what you find out.

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560 in KS

03-28-2008 08:31:47




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 Re: 560 power steering issues in reply to bc, 03-27-2008 14:19:35  
Hey bc. well, i don't really know exactly how long this steering has been going on. i just bought the tractor six months ago from a friend of mine who bought it a year and a half ago. my friend decided he didn't have the time to tinker with this machine so he sold it to me.this isn't the only thing that needs to be fixed on this tractor. lots of other things. as far as i know, this steering has been this way at least since my friend bought it. the hydraulic lift still seems to work okay, goes up and down okay, well i haven't tried to lift anything yet. so where could i get a guage and shut off valve? and which line would i tie in to? and if it was the pump, would it just be worth it to have a dealer rebuild the pump? those bypass valves, are they repairable/cleanable or do they have to be replaced? is that a common problem with these tractors?

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bc

03-28-2008 10:31:39




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 Re: 560 power steering issues in reply to 560 in KS, 03-28-2008 08:31:47  
If you are going to tinker with this then you need the I & T manual and maybe go to ebay to look for the repair manual besides the parts diagrams on the website so you can identify where all the check valves are and how it flows. The lift is probably working of the second pump which is why I suggested piping from that system over to the power steering. The guage and fittings aren't easy to find. The tractor supply/farm stores around here don't carry them. I found an industrial place had them for under $20. I've seen people use black pipe but they are hyd. psi rated and could blow up. Hyd fittings to do all that can get expensive($4 to $10 each) which is why I haven't bought the setup and because there are multiple sized lines which need different types of fittings and some aren't in a good place to add a tee etc. The dealer may have them. You have to look at yours to see where you can tie into. I would start with the lines coming off of the power steering pump and going to and from the steering column. That is why I said it may be just as easy to break a line loose to see what is pumping through it.

The dealer won't rebuild them but look for a hydraulics shop in your area to price a rebuild or to buy a rebuilt or check on the internet for a rebuilt one. They do get expensive. If you are rich, get a pump. If you are poor like me with a little mechanical ability then try to isolate the problem first before buying parts. You have to remove the pump before you can really tell if there is something holding the relief valve open or if the spring is broke or an oring is out. I wanted to check my flow divider valve but the hydraulics shop said it would cost $120 just for them to set it up on their bench to test it. On mine, I ended finding a piece of metal under the ball in the relief valve in the draft control housing.

I don't have enough experience with it to help you anymore on a 560. If you are rich or if you have to have it running in a particular time frame for a job, you can just start replacing parts. I can't take mine to the dealer to let them troubleshoot and flow rate mine cause they want about $300 to truck it plus all their shop rate and expense. Otherwise it is a matter of isolated which part it may be, take it off, check it out, and clean it up. Through this board, I was able to narrow the problem down and then started looking at the easy stuff first. Don't know how common things are but pumps do wear out and relief valves can get stuck or a spring break or a check ball not seat right. You would be surprised at the amount of sludge and crud I have found in places like the draft control housing.

A lot of depends on what you are going to use it for. Heavy duty plowing and disking on 5000 acres or loader use or light mowing or for a parade, etc. I've don't have finger steering(more like old grain truck steering) but I can move bales around now and it isn't worth to me replacing a probably old and worn pump for $500. The hand pump is probably weak also but that is another $500 to replace. I could spend $10,000 on the beast to get it to work like new but I wasn't looking for a new one when I bought this fixer upper. I have a lot of blowby but I'm not going to spend a few grand to overhaul it, just keep adding stp. The forward gear on my forward/reverser would kick out of gear all the time (about $2000 for parts) but I just put a long bolt with a rubber hose on it bolted down below the dash panel. In forward I just push the lever over and behind the bolt and it doesn't pop out of gear anymore.

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