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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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battery charging

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young farmer

04-11-2008 09:17:08




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This might be a dumb question, but is it possible to charge a six volt battery with a twelve volt charger?




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bc

04-12-2008 08:18:49




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 Re: battery charging in reply to young farmer, 04-11-2008 09:17:08  
My 2 cents. I've charged 6 v bats with 12 v high amps before but you just have to watch the battery to make sure it doesn't get to hot and then boil out so not very long. This is usually just till it is charged enough to start.

On trickle charging, if it doesn't make the bat to hot then probably ok but you need to monitor them and not needed daily or constantly over the winter unless you are having a discharge problem. I've had bats stay up all winter with no use and no problem. But there are too many things that can short or cause a minor discharge that will run the bat down over the winter along with just being cold can run them down and I've had those problems too. For bats not run over the winter, I'd just disconnect the cables and if worried just charge them once a month or so. Seems like dead bats and freezing weather makes it difficult for bats to come back to life again.

Also don't put a bat on concrete or the ground. Somehow makes them go deader than a doornail. For loose bats, set them on an insulator.

And as we all know heat is the major cause of bat failure and particularly during the summer and those 100 degree days. Sometimes twisting the post while romoving and cleaning the clamp on a hot battery damage the internal connections. However, the symptons of bat damage usually don't show up until the winter when you try to use the extra amps that are no longer there.

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El Toro

04-11-2008 14:03:57




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 Re: battery charging in reply to young farmer, 04-11-2008 09:17:08  
Did you check your charger for a switch to switch the charger from 12 volts to 6 volts? My charger has that feature. Hal



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Janicholson

04-11-2008 09:27:49




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 Re: battery charging in reply to young farmer, 04-11-2008 09:17:08  
Yes, Put a 6 volt light bulb in series with the connections, so the charging voltage goes through the bulb then the battery, on a 2 amp 12v charger. on a bigger charger, a head lamp would be OK. It will take longer, but it will be safe on the battery. Never leave a high amp (over 10amp) charger hoohed up without supervision, they are like a 10year old in in a chem lab, they will start trouble!!! JimN

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JT

04-11-2008 11:33:40




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 Re: battery charging in reply to Janicholson, 04-11-2008 09:27:49  
What would happen if you put a 12v 270ma charger on a 6v battery? I have about 25 of them and I want to use them to keep my batteries up on my tractors.
Jim



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Bob M

04-11-2008 11:54:35




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 Re: battery charging in reply to JT, 04-11-2008 11:33:40  
Jim - Answer is "it depends".

If the charger is current limited (internal circuitry limits output to about 270 ma regardless of terminal voltage) you could simply hook it and it'll work. But be careful if you do this: If left charging too long (ie. weeks) it could slowly boil the battery dry.

OTOH if the charger is NOT current limited it'll supply more than it's rated current when connected to a 6 volt battery. Consequently it'll overheat in very short order.

If this is the case you could again add a series resistance to limit charging current to a little over the self-discharge rate of the 6 volt battery. Without doing any calculations I guess a #194 lamp (12 volt side marker/instrument panel bulb) would be about right - but this is just a quick guess.

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JT

04-11-2008 19:53:54




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 Re: battery charging in reply to Bob M, 04-11-2008 11:54:35  
Bob M,
These chargers are off lawn mowers, they show 270ma @12vdc and 210ma? at 17vdc on the charger. So at 6vdc, it might increase to 540ma. I had to replace these and I have them and am too much of a "I will find a use for it, someday" to throw them away and it was a thought. do you think it would boil a 6v battery dry in 2-3 months, stored over winter if I did resistor it down to 270ma @ 6vdc?
Thanks
Jim

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Bob M

04-11-2008 21:08:46




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 Re: battery charging in reply to JT, 04-11-2008 19:53:54  
Jim - Depending on the ambient temperature a couple months at 270 ma PROBABLY won't boil a fresh battery dry. OTOH it won't do it any good either.

If you feel the need to charge the battery, my recommendation would be to charge it at the low rate for 24 hours once every 1-2 months.

Incidentally I own a couple 6 volt tractors. They sit unstarted/uncharged from mid-December until late April/early May. But unless one has a battery that's about worn out they always start up unassisted every spring. Seems there's no harm from just letting them sit.

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Janicholson

04-11-2008 20:17:14




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 Re: battery charging in reply to JT, 04-11-2008 19:53:54  
There is no real reason to leave them connected. They will not stand the strain of the connection to the 6v for long. Resisting to lower volts is cool, but only to top them up. A maintainer is electronically set to just put in enough to compensate for internal self discharge. Using the units on 12v batteries is OK, but I don't think it is good for a maintainer. Put it on a fully charged 12v battery, and see if it puts out more than 13volts. If so, it will charge, but might not be appropriate to leave on for months. JimN

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JT

04-12-2008 07:40:50




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 Re: battery charging in reply to Janicholson, 04-11-2008 20:17:14  
Thank you for the responses, I seem to have a hard time with batteries. I have one on a IH B that works great, charge it good when I park it for the winter, starts right up 2-3 months later. I have an M and an H charge both batteries good before I park them, go back and they do not want to start without help. I have load tested batteries, appear to be good, they do not have any residual draw on the batteries, checked with a VOA. Got good cables, connections and grounds checked. I can charge the batteries with a 10a charger for 24 hours, then they will be good for a month or so, then they get weak again, so that is the reason for all these dumb questions, just get tires of jackin' with batteries. I do not use these tractors much, they are a big kids toys. I really did not thinkg 270ma would really do much to a battery, so I thought it best to ask. so, I am kinda thinkin' out loud here. Now that I am at work, the rating on the chargers are: 12.6v----270mA.
17.5v----100mA
OK, another idea, what about putting them on a timer for ?? hours per day to try to keep them fresh? I know the life of a battery is diminished if it sits undercharged a lot, that is where this lunicy is coming from. That is why I am looking at doing this. 6V batteries, even at dealer cost are getting expensive and hard to find.
Jim

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Janicholson

04-12-2008 09:02:07




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 Re: battery charging in reply to JT, 04-12-2008 07:40:50  
The timer would work well. If the batteries have caps on the cells, do a specific gravity check on the electrolite to determine if they are at 1175 or more SG. if cells are differing more than 10% the battery may be beyond prime age. If the battery sits for a month, then is checked for SG, and has wide variation, the plates have sulfeated across the seperators, and are thus shorted with a self discharge pathway. There is no fix for this. If the charger can stand an hour of operation W/O toasting itself, That is what I would do. Test the SG after a month of periodic charging, then make a decision. JimN

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Bob M

04-11-2008 10:05:44




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 Re: battery charging in reply to Janicholson, 04-11-2008 09:27:49  
Jim - That works! However I prefer to use a 12 volt headlight bulb (or a 1156 backup light bulb) wired in series with the charger instead of a 6 volt lamp for a couple reasons:

1 - The 12 volt bulb limits max charging current to a lower level - about 3 amps or so. Thus less chance of harming the battery as it reaches full charge.

2 - If the battery fails short or there's otherwise a short in the charging circuit, a 12 volt lamp will simply light up normally. OTOH a 6 volt lamp will burn out almost instantly - it becomes essentially a rather expensive fuse.

----

BTW your advice to not leave a 6 volt battery charging in the manner unattended is very good indeed!

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Janicholson

04-11-2008 15:12:11




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 Re: battery charging in reply to Bob M, 04-11-2008 10:05:44  
I agree. When I was doing it all I had was a 6v bulb, (thus the answer) A big old 300 watt rehostat would be the ticket, just start at about 50 ohms, and crank it till it charged at the chargers rating. It still needs watched though! JimN



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glennster

04-11-2008 09:23:59




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 Re: battery charging in reply to young farmer, 04-11-2008 09:17:08  
bout the only way to do that would be with 2 6volt batteries, wire them in series and charge them.



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young farmer

04-11-2008 10:21:27




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 Re: battery charging in reply to glennster, 04-11-2008 09:23:59  
When you say in series is does that mean the two positive terminals together and the two negative terminals together



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garytomaszewski

04-11-2008 15:16:17




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 Re: battery charging in reply to young farmer, 04-11-2008 10:21:27  
In series simply means making the 2 sixes into 1 twelve, batteries are a group of 2 volt "batteries" (CELLS) hooked together negative to positive, 3 CELLS = 6 Volts, 6 CELLS = 12 Volts. Connecting + to + and - to - is Parallel, as in "JUMPING" gives more potential amperage but still only the voltage of the battery.



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IH2444

04-11-2008 10:26:17




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 Re: battery charging in reply to young farmer, 04-11-2008 10:21:27  
nope


12V Charger - -6v batt1+ -6vbatt2+ + charger



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