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10-20 start-up

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bigr

04-13-2008 18:36:46




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I got my Grandfather's 1928 10-20 last year. Sat in the barn for 35+ years but they had drained the gas and radiator and the engine ran before. Engine was free, clutch a little sticky. Ran out of time before winter, worked on a little this winter on it. I think it's ready to try starting it. New to the crank thing. Can anyone give me a list of things to check before I try it. And does anyone have a timing explanation? I have reprints of an owner's manual and the old overhaul manual but I'm not getting it. I'd love to see this run and any help would be appreciated. Sorry guys I'm used to post-war tractors!

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LenNH

04-16-2008 16:36:08




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 Re: 10-20 start-up in reply to bigr, 04-13-2008 18:36:46  
I have instructions on timing, but don't have time for a few days to go dig this out of storage. If I can help, e-mail me and I'll look for this next week.
I'm a little confused about your confusion, but it looks as if you are not sure how the mag is "shut off." Both E-4A and F-4 mags have a grounding "switch" inside the lever that moves up and down at the back of the mag. When the lever is all the way up, the mag is supposed to be grounded, and any spark will go through the mag case instead of through the points and then to the coil. On the 10-20, the mag is supposed to be grounded when the "spark lever"--the front one of the two levers--is all the way to the left. If your mag sparks and you want to check to see if the grounding "switch" is working, make sure there is no fuel in the carb so then you can crank it over and have somebody hold a sparkplug wire near the block. If there is a spark, the grounding "switch" is not working. I haven't seen one of these in a while, but I think there are a couple of points that come together when the lever is all the way to the top. I suppose they could get corroded and not conduct current. These old tractors had "spark levers" because with kerosene, a very "low-octane fuel," knocking was common under heavy load. This was destructive to the pistons. If the driver heard knocking, he simply moved the spark lever (to the left in this case) until the knocking stopped. Of course, moving all the way to the left would kill the engine, but you didn't have to move much to stop the knocking. Cars up until the very early thirties, in some cases, had spark levers or spark knobs. The Ford A had a spark lever until 1931, and my father's '32 Chevrolet ton and a half truck had a knob like a choke that you pulled out to start, to avoid the possibility of breaking the Bendix drive on the starter (a kickback would break the drive spring, which meant dismantling the starter and installing a new spring). Retarding isn't a bad idea any time you are starting. The impulse coupling is supposed to retard enough so that the engine fires AFTER top dead center, but I got into the habit of retarding anyway. Still, I know I cranked sometimes with the lever at full advance, but being d..... .d sure that the impulse was working. If you go over top dead center (you can feel the difference) and you haven't heard a click, STOP and check the impulse. On the E-4A, the impulse will stay engaged unless the engine fires a couple of times and speeds up the impulse enough to throw the lever out of engagement, so always take a look if you get a couple of pops but the engine does not continue to run. I made it a habit on our 10-20 to leave the hood up and to look at the impulse before I pulled up. Spinning, by the way, probably has very little value in creating a hot spark. The impulse coupling spins the mag, and if everything is working right, will start the engine after three or four pulls, if not before. My father had his arm broken by spinning a crank. Fortunately in one way, the 10-20 crank can't fly off and come up and hit you on the chin, but it can come backwards. If you pull up AND don't put your thumb around the crank, stand back enough so the crank can't hit you, you're safe. I guess I was a fuss-budget about cranking, because I never had an engine kick back. I HAVE seen it happen to other people, and I can tell you that an engine this big really packs a wallop. Each cylinder has about 70 cubic inches of displacement, which is nearly the size of the whole engine of some small European cars!

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BRD

04-13-2008 21:48:18




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 Re: 10-20 start-up in reply to bigr, 04-13-2008 18:36:46  
Before you get to carried away with timing, drain oil and fill with new, also remove the spark plugs and put some light oil (ATF--#10--ect)in all cylinders. You will need to remove #1 plug anyway to find TDC. New water and gas was mentioned.



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bigr

04-14-2008 13:21:14




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 Re: 10-20 start-up in reply to BRD, 04-13-2008 21:48:18  
The tractor has fresh oil(there is no oil filter), new plugs new wires, new antifreeze in the radiator, etc. I was trying to work with the timing mark as per the book but can find it anywhere. Can I just do it with the tdc?



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Bob Kerr

04-13-2008 19:27:15




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 Re: 10-20 start-up in reply to bigr, 04-13-2008 18:36:46  
Check to see what mag it has. It should have an E4A mag with a brass band around the magnet. A lot of them were converted to the F4 Mag. The E4A has a small wire lever that flips a pawl down on the impulse coupler and the F4 has an automatic impulse coupler on it. First thing to do is put water in and gas in the tank and check for leaks. Then figure out which lever works the mag. but put it in the down position for now. Pull the choke rod out and crank it over 4 times. That means put your hand flat under the crank with your thumb in and pull up once. DO NOT grab it and try to spin it like a starter! Good way to get a broken wrist!If it has the F4 mag you should hear a click each time you pull up, one the E4A mag you won't. Now is the time to set the mag to the start position. Watch the small cap on the mag where the rod hooks to it and move the lever a small bit until the cap moves a 1/4 inch (Not the cap where the wires go, but the alum cap the rod hooks to). DO NOT try to start it with the spark lever moved over to the right all the way, it WILL KICK BACK and that is where people get hurt! Just move it a little at a time but no more than a 1/2 inch at the mag cap If you have the E4A mag now flip that little wire lever so the pawl rubs the coupling. You should hear it click each pull, if not make sure the lever didn't flip itself off. Then take the choke off or at least put it half way. Then pull the crank handle up firmly and keep your arm, leg, head and anything else you don't want hit away from the handle and see what it does. It should start within 8 pulls. Mine would start every time on the first starting pull. I call the first 4 pulls with the choke on and the mag turned off, the priming pulls, kind of like starting an old airplane when the prop was turned by hand for several revs and then the pilot says CONTACT! (he turns on the mag or IGN at that point and the guy spinning the prop stays clear as he pulls the prop)If not check for spark at the plug. That will take 4 pulls to do as each pull fires one cylinder. Check to make sure gas is getting into the carb. I can't think of anything else, but do be careful. It can be intimidating the first time, but don't get too confident any time you start it in the future. Stay clear of the crank anytime you pull it up even when priming! If I missed something someone will jump in. Good luck!

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bigr

04-14-2008 13:42:42




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 Re: 10-20 start-up in reply to Bob Kerr, 04-13-2008 19:27:15  
third party image

third party image

Here are pictures.



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bigr

04-14-2008 13:35:46




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 Re: 10-20 start-up in reply to Bob Kerr, 04-13-2008 19:27:15  
It has the E4A mag on it. That was the replacement, I don't remember what the original was that I haven't seen for a while. It has new plugs, new wires, fresh oil change, radiator clean and full. I put a single pole mag switch on it because I couldn't figure out how to shut it off. My mag lever works front to rear not side to side. If you look at the aluminum cap from the seat, the cap to the left would be off and the cap turned towards the right a 1/4" would be starting position, correct? At that time you would turn the mag switch on, correct? As far as timing I would get the front cylinder to TDC and then the cap on the mag should be at no. 1? I'll try sending you photos. Thanks!

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James Williams

04-13-2008 18:45:15




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 Re: 10-20 start-up in reply to bigr, 04-13-2008 18:36:46  
Bigr,If it ran when parked the timming bolts are probally right,just time the mag.The choke mecenism is critical,make sure all the parts fit tight so the vaccum will pull gas from the carb. to the head.If you can belt it with another tractor this will help.

jimmy



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bigr

04-13-2008 18:56:05




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 Re: 10-20 start-up in reply to James Williams, 04-13-2008 18:45:15  
Sorry, didn't tell the whole story. They put it away because they had Mag problems, and nobody was around anymore that could fix a mag. I took that mag off, sent to B&B Custom Circuits, took 2 months got it back no spark. Called the guy he said he would stand behind it. That was last Labor Day, called him in December hadn't gotten around to working on it. Haven't heard from him since and won't answer voicemails. About given up. Anyway, bought another mag from a guy, it has spark, starting from scratch on the timing. Having a little trouble understanding how to do it. I thought about belting it up to another tractor, just want to make sure I covered everything. Thanks!

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James Williams

04-13-2008 19:02:46




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 Re: 10-20 start-up in reply to bigr, 04-13-2008 18:56:05  
BigR give me a call 1-304-725-1037



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