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My MD Starting on Gas Blues.....

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Matt Compton

04-19-2008 09:26:51




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Well here I am again, with my MD starting blues, I know i've been on here now 3 times with this same problem, And I KNOW that someone has the right answer for me!!

Heres the situation

My MD starts hard HARD on gas... so hard u may as well now say it won't start on gas.... but here is the FUNKY thing.

It runs perfect on diesel and I mean PERFECT, and the tractor will switch back to gas every time PERFECT, RUNS LIKE A DREAM!!!!!

When I try to start it on gas, it acts like it wants to start it juggs and juggs and juggs then stalls, with alot of whiteish blackish smoke..

When is does rarely finally starts on gas and my battery is all but dead is runs 100% on gas!! and then switches to diesel with out a hitch!!

I have tryed different things such as:

Different Carb
Different Mag
Different Intake

The only thing I haven't tryed is adjusting the starting valves, could my compression on the gas side be to high??? This is the last thing I can think of

I've had this tractor for 3 years now, I reserected it from the woods, I has always run good on diesel, never starting good on gas, but once running on gas runs GREAT!!

I hope you can follow all of this, I know one of ya's have the right answer

And to all of you that have made suggestions already THANKS SO MUCH IS ALL HELPS!!!!

I will dig out the video camera and post it starting on YouTube so stay tuned!

Thanks again!

Matt

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John - OH

04-19-2008 20:55:30




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 Re: My MD Starting on Gas Blues..... in reply to Matt Compton, 04-19-2008 09:26:51  
I agree with Allan, your getting diesel in there when your on the gas side. Once it's warm and running it's not such a big deal to switch back to gas, but starting a gas on diesel isn't going to work real well.



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Ron Taylor

04-19-2008 19:29:16




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 Re: My MD Starting on Gas Blues..... in reply to Matt Compton, 04-19-2008 09:26:51  
If your shutting it down on diesel, don't.Switchto gas for a couple minutes first.I was having the same trouble with mine.It would try to start,run a second then quit,& also black smoke.Some guys say it don't matter but it DOES.My Dad had a 650 for years & he always said shut it down on gas or it was hard to start.



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ihc49

04-19-2008 17:00:45




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 Re: My MD Starting on Gas Blues..... in reply to Matt Compton, 04-19-2008 09:26:51  
the spark plug issue is correct also, you need the long reach ones or they dont start worth a dam.and to tractorfan , you dont switch to gas to cool down. the gas is just for starting!any diesel at idle cools faster than a gas one!you dont open those little gas valves when their hot, that could make them warp.there is no reason what so ever to go to gas once your on diesel.just cool it off and shut it down.ihc had this technology since 1934 and very good success with these engines.john deere was still poppin around with their Ds, and had no diesel till the later 40s.with the R.

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Smitholm

04-19-2008 19:22:59




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 Re: My MD Starting on Gas Blues..... in reply to ihc49, 04-19-2008 17:00:45  
Take another look at an IH MD operator's manual, and you'll see that shutting down on gas is the recommended procedure. My '48 MD has been in the family since new, has pretty much always been shut down this way, and I "believe" it helps in starting the next time. Especially if it's going to be sitting awhile before the next start. Of course, whatever procedure is used, one wants to walk away from it with the starting lever in the diesel position (back on MD, SMD, SMTAD; forward on 400D and 450D) so the compression release/starting valves can cool on their seats and not warp.

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Matt Compton

04-19-2008 16:49:55




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 Re: My MD Starting on Gas Blues..... in reply to Matt Compton, 04-19-2008 09:26:51  
ya i shut it off on gas still no difference, i'm sure its something simple because it runs soooo smooth when you finally get it running and it switches back to gas with out a hitch



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Chris NW Ind

04-19-2008 16:42:43




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 Re: My MD Starting on Gas Blues..... in reply to Matt Compton, 04-19-2008 09:26:51  
I know that my 450 Diesel would not start on gas when the starting lever wasn't all the way back. For a short time, it wouldn't lock to the gas side so I was tying it back with a wire. It wasn't quite far enough and the engine refused to start.

Now, that starting lever moves a long rod that is adjustable. Try incrementally adjusting it and see what happens.

Chris B.



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Tractorfan1

04-19-2008 15:55:25




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 Re: My MD Starting on Gas Blues..... in reply to Matt Compton, 04-19-2008 09:26:51  

Matt Compton said: (quoted from post at 09:26:51 04/19/08) Well here I am again, with my MD starting blues, I know i've been on here now 3 times with this same problem, And I KNOW that someone has the right answer for me!!

Heres the situation

My MD starts hard HARD on gas... so hard u may as well now say it won't start on gas.... but here is the FUNKY thing.

It runs perfect on diesel and I mean PERFECT, and the tractor will switch back to gas every time PERFECT, RUNS LIKE A DREAM!!!!!
When I try to start it on gas, it acts like it wants to start it juggs and juggs and juggs then stalls, with alot of whiteish blackish smoke..
When is does rarely finally starts on gas and my battery is all but dead is runs 100% on gas!! and then switches to diesel with out a hitch!!

I have tryed different things such as:

Different Carb

Different Mag

Different Intake

The only thing I haven't tryed is adjusting the starting valves, could my compression on the gas side be to high??? This is the last thing I can think of

I've had this tractor for 3 years now, I reserected it from the woods, I has always run good on diesel, never starting good on gas, but once running on gas runs GREAT!!

I hope you can follow all of this, I know one of ya's have the right answer

And to all of you that have made suggestions already THANKS SO MUCH IS ALL HELPS!!!!

I will dig out the video camera and post it starting on YouTube so stay tuned!

Thanks again!

Matt


Hello Matt,
Do you switch your MD over to gas when ready to shut off? MD's need to run on gas to cool off before shut down. :)

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Matt Compton

04-19-2008 15:05:25




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 Re: My MD Starting on Gas Blues..... in reply to Matt Compton, 04-19-2008 09:26:51  
Just got in the house from working on the MD, removed the intake and adjusted all the starting mechinism. It was out quite a bit. still no luck though, although my battery was getting weak, and I have old plugs in. New set will be here tuesday. Maybe that will help too. The tractor is ALWAYS so close to starting, just seems like it doesn't have just quite enough oommph to stay running, almost like a motor with to low of compression.. Starting to get frusterated!!!

Stay tooned Matt

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No tools

04-19-2008 11:54:30




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 Re: My MD Starting on Gas Blues..... in reply to Matt Compton, 04-19-2008 09:26:51  
My question.What plugs have you in it.

It takes a d89d champion plug long electode to start proper.Or any thing in equal to that.

Any of the short plugs don't work well in that engine.spark is not back in the chamber deep enough.



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Smitholm

04-19-2008 12:50:50




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 Re: My MD Starting on Gas Blues..... in reply to No tools, 04-19-2008 11:54:30  
I have used Champion D89D (later number is 543, I think) with good success in all my gas-start diesels for a number of years. However, one of my 450 diesels showed up with something very different (don't remember the number) - didn't look anything like D89D - but still started decently. Didn't notice them until I changed plugs as a matter of course. So, guess my comment is that, while I prefer the D89D plugs, others of the right length from base to tip apparently will work too. FWIW

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Allan In NE

04-19-2008 11:17:16




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 Re: My MD Starting on Gas Blues..... in reply to Matt Compton, 04-19-2008 09:26:51  
Matt,

Like these other guys say, that white smoke is unbrunt diesel.

I don't know squat about your MD, but for sure can tell you that the gas side is getting diesel fuel when it shouldn't be.

Allan



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ihc49

04-19-2008 10:02:53




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 Re: My MD Starting on Gas Blues..... in reply to Matt Compton, 04-19-2008 09:26:51  
appears like the diesel change over lever needs adjusting if your saying it has white smoke starting on gas.they take lots of choke to start if cooler out.no such thing as to much comp. on gas side. all your doing is opening those little gas valves to let the compression into a gas chamber.if their at fault it would affect the diesel operation.you can remove the spark plugs while its running on diesel and you should have no compression leakage, that shows the little valves are doing their thing.this is one engine that runs without its spark plugs!i am sure you just have an adjustment problem.

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Smitholm

04-19-2008 09:58:15




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 Re: My MD Starting on Gas Blues..... in reply to Matt Compton, 04-19-2008 09:26:51  
I have an MD that never started worth a crap on gas until I got an I&T manual and adjusted the starting linkage to spec. Since then, starts like a dream. Can't tell you what the number or price of the manual is, since it's not in front of me, but it sure made a huge difference, and was well worth the money. If you're getting much smoke while trying to start it, that indicates, to me, that you're getting some diesel in there with the gas, and a linkage adjustment should cure this. SMD and later Operator's manuals may have the procedure in them as well, but I'm sure the I&T does. First time through took me a few hours, but it was well worth the effort. Good luck, and let us know how it turns out.

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