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Tranny noise in M

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Randy-IA

05-03-2008 21:25:48

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Hi All , To bring everyone up to speed I replaced every bearing , bushing and gasket from the input shaft back . I re-set the differential gears to zero side play and the backlash I only got to .012 . I did not check the contact pattern . I was going to and bought prussion blue marking compound but a seasoned mechanic told me that as long as I reinstalled the main shaft shims that came out then I shouldn't have to . Later when I told him about the noise he said I should have checked . That annoyed me some . So I thought the noise was from the differential . After dragging the hayrack around today picking up trees I cut down around the edge of the field yesterday and listening closely to the tranny I don't think it's coming from under the seat but actually from the tranny area . It idles quiet in neutral and runs a little quieter in high range than in direct . There's absolutely no noise coasting down a hill in gear with no load on the gears . So , with this information anybody have any suggestions as to what to check ? It might be a few weeks till I get around to working on it again . Thanks ! ...Randy

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Bernie Steffen

05-04-2008 14:50:33

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Re: Tranny noise in M in reply to Randy-IA, 05-03-2008 21:25:48

Randy Ia. Good rule of thumb, when you take a ring and pinon setup apart, check backlash before you take it apart. Set it the same when you put it back together or you will have noise. Just my 2 cents Bernie Steffen

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Randy-IA

05-04-2008 17:44:08

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Re: Tranny noise in M in reply to Bernie Steffen, 05-04-2008 14:50:33

Good advice ! :) I'll remember that if or when I open another tractor . ...Randy

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John M

05-04-2008 04:54:06

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Re: Tranny noise in M in reply to Randy-IA, 05-03-2008 21:25:48

It idles quiet in neutral and runs a little quieter in high range than in direct.

Whats that mean? Sound to me like you just have some wore gears. Every M I have make some noise in every gear, except for one, but it makes a lot of noise in 5th since this tractor was mainly used to pull a wagon up and down the road in its lifetime.

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Randy-IA

05-04-2008 12:58:00

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Re: Tranny noise in M in reply to John M, 05-04-2008 04:54:06

Hi John , Sorry for the confusion . It has a 9-speed . It makes less noise in the high range of the 9-speed but it's still loud . Much louder than before the rebuild . ...Randy

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John M

05-04-2008 13:37:34

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Re: Tranny noise in M in reply to Randy-IA, 05-04-2008 12:58:00

AH! gotcha. Im not too familiar with the 9 speed setups, as I have only had one tractor with one, but it sounds like maybe the old bearings were letting whatever play you had in the gears just kinda slop around keeing it quiet, and now the new bearings have the gears lined back up perfect and now they make noise. understand what Im saying?

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Randy-IA

05-04-2008 14:22:36

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Re: Tranny noise in M in reply to John M, 05-04-2008 13:37:34

Yup , So maybe after a another decade of hard use it'll start to tone down :) . I don't know when the 9-speed was installed or how worn out the tractor was when it was installed so that makes sense . The bearings were pretty rust pitted and loose when I took it apart as was most everything in the case including the gears . So that's most likely it . They are worn in to each other with a different contact area than they have now . I'm not going back into it till this fall anyway so time will tell if it wants to start to quiet down in the interim . Thanks for bringing that up ! ...Randy

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CenTexFarmall

05-03-2008 21:34:59

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Re: Tranny noise in M in reply to Randy-IA, 05-03-2008 21:25:48

I'm doing the exact same thing on my Super M. I was about to post about the ring and pinion thing.

I was debating whether or not to try to re-shim for backlash and pattern or put all the shims back as they came.

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Randy-IA

05-03-2008 22:07:38

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Re: Tranny noise in M in reply to CenTexFarmall, 05-03-2008 21:34:59

I was told to go for zero side play in the diff which I think I got but by removing ( moving ) the thinest of the shims from one side to the other it took the backlash down to about .006 . I felt that was to tight for plowing . I put just the main shaft shims back as they were . The reasoning being that that's where the gears have worn at and my old diff bearings where still somewhat good and reasonably tight . I'm not so sure it's my diff making the noise anymore . The sliding gears on the main shaft are somewhat loose on the shaft . I don't know if that would make this type of noise though . It sounds like gear whine , it just doesn't sound like it's coming from the rear of the tractor . ...Randy

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CenTexFarmall

05-04-2008 07:01:08

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Re: Tranny noise in M in reply to Randy-IA, 05-03-2008 22:07:38

Zero sideplay sounds like a good plan. My carrier and bull pinion bearings were still pretty tight, but had minor pitting from corrosion.

I don't know that the gears on the mainshaft would make noise since they are not in constant mesh and also since you said it was quiet while coasting. My 2-3 gear was somewhat loose due to years of plowing, but I replaced it with a better one.

What gear oil are you using? In my '50 model M I have 80w-90 and it makes some noise in all the gears, but I haven't gone through it and it's worn.

It's frustrating to have some noise after all that work. It seems like your plan of moving the ring gear over to take up the slack and leaving the pinion depth the same was basically good.

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Randy-IA

05-04-2008 13:14:39

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Re: Tranny noise in M in reply to CenTexFarmall, 05-04-2008 07:01:08

Thanks for the vote of confidence ! Yup , It's real annoying because I was borrowing the neighbors shop and was in a hurry to get it done since it was dragging on longer than I expected it to . I was feeling guilty about using his space when I knew he needed it for his own projects . So I cut corners and lost . The bad part is that I used high tack on all the gaskets that will need to be removed again so that will be another $100 or so for gaskets .:( Advice - DON'T use anything on the gaskets till you know you have it right ! Save some cash . Both axles , cover , bull pinion o-rings and pinion end gaskets will need replacing when I open it back up . Maybe not the o-rings . The old tractor is a money pit these days since this morning I went out and saw the rear rim was broken on the right side and the tube was showing through the rot from the liquid . Now I need a good rim . I'm getting a little discouraged about this old tractor so I'm going to leave it for a while and concentrate on things that need doing around here . Good Luck with your's ! ...Randy

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CenTexFarmall

05-04-2008 22:31:07

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Re: Tranny noise in M in reply to Randy-IA, 05-04-2008 13:14:39

Well at least you were conscientious about using his space. I've had family projects in my shop that I thought I'd never get rid of!

I think High-tack just about fits into that two edge sword category. BTDT with that stuff! I hate having to go back in after sealing up with it. Like you said, gaskets are usually history.

It can be discouraging when things break as fast (or faster) than you can fix them. If the corrosion is severe in a local area perhaps you can patch it. I've seen some that had neat and functional patches made from flat stock.

Keep at it!

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MAGMAN

05-04-2008 02:30:46

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Re: Tranny noise in M in reply to Randy-IA, 05-03-2008 22:07:38

How was the tranny piliot bearing? K5208 or something cheap to replace, How about the race for it in the front gear. I had one go on an H and it tor it up good and ended up replacing that front part that has the race inside. What kind of noise do you have the oil up where it belongs. Is it in the clutch housing or tranny. Do you have a belt pulley? You can take it off and see some without pulling the deck. Just a few thoughts. JON

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Randy-IA

05-04-2008 13:37:22

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Re: Tranny noise in M in reply to MAGMAN, 05-04-2008 02:30:46

Hi Magman , Every bearing and bushing is new and except for the pinion bearings everything came from the IH dealer . They weren't the cheapest but after getting the pinion bearings and comparing them to the old ones they had fewer balls so they were less expensive . I went back to IH for everything else . I didn't put the belt pulley back on , I used a blockoff plate . I need to rebuild that before it goes back on since the old oil was full of shavings and I didn't want any crud to get back into the case . The oil is a mix of 80-90 and 85-140 , mostly 80-90 . It's at the right level . Best part is there's NO leaks after a week ! But that will probably change when I have to take it apart again . Thanks for trying to help . ...Randy

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