Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo Auction Link (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
:

E85

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
Thack

05-06-2008 11:42:27




Report to Moderator

I have watched the E85 debate and stayed on the sidelines, actually I did lean in favor of E85 a little. Yesterday I went and looked at a few new cars.

Well after my trip I am completly against. Using manufacturer data you will loose 26-32% mpg with E85. Using all the information I collected E85 would have to sell for $2.46 a gallon for a person to come out even.




[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
IndianaRed

05-11-2008 16:40:39




Report to Moderator
 Re: E85 in reply to Thack, 05-06-2008 11:42:27  
Serious and sober scientists have told us there is still a 300 year supply of oil just in the continental United States. Canada has as much or more if you count shale. This is all caused by Extremist Greenies and liberal judges that are sympathetic to their causes upholding injunctions against drilling and building new refineries. I love the land as much or more than anyone else, and I fully believe global warming is a complete farce. Sweden, China, and Mexico are all drilling off the Florida Keyes, we can't. France generates 95% of their electricity from Nuclear Plants, we can't. If the American people don't wake up soon we're really going to be in it deep. I'm all for new forms of power for cars, but let's use what we have available now and let natural market forces bring the change.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
edward_m

05-06-2008 21:26:51




Report to Moderator
 Re: E85 in reply to Thack, 05-06-2008 11:42:27  
There's so much mis-information out there about ethanol, anyone can prove a case for or against it.

I've kept hearing how it takes more energy to produce it than what you get in return. Well, that may have been true some time ago, but the latest industry figures show a 35% to 40% gain. (and it takes energy to make gasoline too....it doesn't just evaporate out of crude: thats what refinery 'cracking' towers are for....funny we don't hear about those figures)

So called 'experts' keep trying to tell us that we can't grow enough corn/soybeans to replace gas, so the technology is a dead end. Guess what: nobody ever said 'totally replace'. Its an alternative, ment to ease oil demand. Thats just what it could do, except we still want our gasoline 'fix', and won't accept anything even slightly less powerful.

Many states, in order to cut demand and lower prices at the pump, are looking to increase the blend in 'standard' ethanol fuel from 10% up to 20%, or even 30%. Would they be doing that if it was a 'dead-end'? I've run my van with as much as 50% mixed, and I'm just not seeing the 'terrible' performance that I keep getting warned about: it runs just fine, and the mileage hasn't suffered. Guess I'm just luck, ya think?

Sure, ethanol doesn't have the same 'bang' that gasoline does, yet, if the vehicle is set up right (and an Indi-car is the perfect example), you can get acceptable performance and mileage. The problem is, todays multi-fuel cars are still trying to have the best of both worlds, gasoline and ethanol, which means you have to have a trade-off somewhere, and you get one guess which fuel comes in second place.

Here's one idea that we, as collectors and operators of old iron, may want to keep in mind when we talk about ethanol. If and when other forms of energy are developed for vehicle use, like electric, or hydrogen, or even compressed air engines (don't laugh: they've actually built one that gets approx. 350 miles on one 'charge' of air), what are WE going to use? Our old tractors will probably out last all of us, yet they still need to burn something, and if gas is on the way out, just what do you intend to use?

We'd all better embrace SOME kind of fuel, even if it isn't just as powerful as gas (and there are supplements that boost the octane, so that may not be the big boogie man we make it out to be), or else our tractors really will be 'old iron', instead of a live piece of machinery.

And personally, I think museums are NOT the place for our tractors.

Just my .02 cents, take it or leave it.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
devin in mo

05-06-2008 19:54:25




Report to Moderator
 Re: E85 in reply to Thack, 05-06-2008 11:42:27  
Yeah it cost more per gallo to use e85 but it should work out the same $ per mile



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
bellyacre

05-06-2008 19:26:17




Report to Moderator
 Re: E85 in reply to Thack, 05-06-2008 11:42:27  
This is somewhat a matter of perspective. If you raise corn, own shares in an ethanol plant and feed distillers grain, you might be more comfortable keeping 85% of the proceeds in the community and sending 15% to the oil cartel. Or you can use 100% gas and send 100% to the cartel. Matter of choice.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
teddy52food

05-07-2008 09:56:53




Report to Moderator
 Re: E85 in reply to bellyacre, 05-06-2008 19:26:17  
No matter how you look at it , you are just burning up the top soil.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Bob

05-06-2008 14:08:18




Report to Moderator
 Re: E85 in reply to Thack, 05-06-2008 11:42:27  
LOOK OUT!

I have got "flamed" several times around here for posting basically the same information.

If the the EPA numbers can be believed AT ALL, the ethanol numbers don't look good!

Anyone think the EPA "skews" the numbers for a given vehicle AGAINST ethanol?



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
garytomaszewski

05-06-2008 14:31:14




Report to Moderator
 Re: E85 in reply to Bob, 05-06-2008 14:08:18  
If you are refering to me I certainly never meant to "flame" you or anybody, just telling what it is in my area. My comment on the EPA I have never come close to their figures, sometimes better, most times worse, BIG difference in "real world" traffic jams, cold weather, head winds,etc. and controlled temp dyno room test.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Bob

05-06-2008 18:25:56




Report to Moderator
 Re: E85 in reply to garytomaszewski, 05-06-2008 14:31:14  
1.) I wasn't specifically referring to you.

2.) I agree it's hard to achieve EPA "numbers" in the real world. HOWEVER, as I said before, when looking at gasoline and ethanol EPA mileage for the same vehicle, a reduction of 30%, more or less, is common. Once again, I ask... do you think the EPA "skews" the two tests of the SAME model of vehicle to make ethanol look bad???



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Jon Hagen

05-06-2008 20:43:59




Report to Moderator
 Re: E85 in reply to Bob, 05-06-2008 18:25:56  
I suspect the genuine FFV's have the fuel calibration set plenty rich on E85 to CTA on warrenty issues. It is pretty common to see a FFV use 20-30% more gallons of E85 VS gasoline, yet I have seen several non FFV's that show as little as a 10% drop when running E85.
I don't know if the non FFV fuel system runs pretty lean on E85 or what might make the difference.
My 2000 Dakota with non FFV 4.7 V8 has shown a pretty consistant 10% (2 mpg) drop in economy using E85 Vs 87 octane regular. I suspect the knock sensor retards the timing a bit on 87 octane stuff, because the rig does make better mileage on 91 octane premium.

I suspect that the 100 + octane of E85 allows full spark advance without detonation, which helps compensate for some of the lower BTU's of E85, plus I wonder if it runs a bit lean on E85

My mpg runs were from Goodrich to Fargo and back, about 400 miles per trip, with the only difference being the fuel. Far enough that I consider the results reasonably accurate.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Thack

05-06-2008 21:11:44




Report to Moderator
 Re: E85 in reply to Jon Hagen, 05-06-2008 20:43:59  
Good post Jon, I have wondered about the difference myself.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
garytomaszewski

05-06-2008 20:23:31




Report to Moderator
 Re: E85 in reply to Bob, 05-06-2008 18:25:56  
I can't believe that they could skew the results without someone; car company, ethanol producers, green people making alot of noise. I think you said you might want to modify something to make use of ethanol. Did you pick up my previous post about Indy cars and Honda being 100% ethanol?



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Guy Fay

05-06-2008 11:58:24




Report to Moderator
 Re: E85 in reply to Thack, 05-06-2008 11:42:27  
There's a webiste that collects local unleaded and E-85 prices, then calculates the spread. Some stations "get it" some don't- looks ike there may be a little price gouging out there on E-85 as well:



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy