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Farmalls stink!

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Mark W.

05-08-2008 08:33:56

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Okay, now that I have your attention I apologize for the blasphemy! What does it take to add a set of hydraulic remotes to the rear of a 340 utility. I have remotes on the left side in the middle and I really do not want to run flexible lines back. I must admit I know little about hydraulics and the terminology. I sure hope my father doesn't see the subject title!!

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JSharp

05-11-2008 07:03:10

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Re: Farmalls stink! in reply to Mark W., 05-08-2008 08:33:56

Charles - I wanted to keep the hoses away from everything that moves. It seems like there's plenty of room back there but it's all closer than I thought! The pics are deceiving but there is just enough room for the equipment hoses to pass by the vertical link that connects to the right lift arm when I use the outside couplers. They do touch that vertical link though depending on how the hoses come off the attached equipment. An abrasion sleeve over the hoses would probably work well enough.

No clearance problem with the inner set of couplers.
I had to Helicoil the mounting holes on the rear housing before I could use them. They're 7/16" coarse thread so it was no problem. I have no idea what they were used for originally but the threads were almost completely rusted away.
I made the bracket out of scrap and looking back, I should have angled it in slightly to give more clearance. One of the hoses is a bit long too so it's right at the minimum bend radius. It's hard to measure them exactly when fitting things that close. I'll run it until I have trouble with it.
I had mixed feelings about the breakaway couplers and ended up not using any because it was easier. I looked at maybe 10 of the neighbors tractors and saw about 1/2 with and 1/2 without. Older stuff always seems to have them. Newer tractors not so much and never on any of the small import models.
Just like everything a person builds, once it's done you can see ways to do it better. Hey, there's always version 2 right? ;)

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charles todd

05-10-2008 21:49:47

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Re: Farmalls stink! in reply to Mark W., 05-08-2008 08:33:56

Nice JSharp. I like the way you kept the lines short by mounting to the side of the axle housing. I feel I need to relocate my couplers, the hoses rub the lift arm (rockshaft??) in the full up position. I was just going to use JIC 45's to angle them back, but your setup has got me thinking about version 2.0. The main reason I placed them high was a short time frame to have operational, simplicity in mounting the breakaways, and the loader hoses lay nice with out shortening them.

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JSharp

05-10-2008 08:15:12

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Re: Farmalls stink! in reply to Mark W., 05-08-2008 08:33:56

Mark -

One thing no one mentioned is the CaseIH site. The have exploded views there of most of the tractors with part numbers. It's a handy reference and you can look at all the parts and parts from different models to see if what you need is available or if something else might work for you.

Here's some pics of how I did my valves and hydraulic couplers. I didn't want lines hanging all over in the rear of the tractor so it's different than what Charles did. I didn't use a breakaway coupler bracket but instead just made up a simple bracket to hold the couplers. The lines are all less than 13" long and the left set of couplers uses the factory IH double piloted check valve.

My neighbor has a New Holland that's a couple of years old and it's done in a similar fashion but with rigid tubing to the couplers. Most of the imported tractors seem to be done this way too.

Each to his own, but if you want something to be inexpensive and functional you can do it easily with modern parts as long as you aren't obsessed with keeping things "IH factory stock."

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charles todd

05-09-2008 17:26:58

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Re: Farmalls stink! PICTURES in reply to Mark W., 05-08-2008 08:33:56

I appoligize for the mis-post, still forget how to post in "MODERN" view.

"Fender Removed for Access"

Lot of pictures Mark, but it may help you to see my "photo-manual" of how I improved a 50 year old mess. One day, I will probably rebuild with steel tube, but for now, this was FAR cheaper Any questions, I can try to help if possible. My e-mail is open. By the way, I am an Industrial, Multi-Craft Maintenance Technician and I work with hydraulics regularly.

Sorry for the long post, Charles.

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charles todd

05-09-2008 17:19:53

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Re: Farmalls stink! in reply to Mark W., 05-08-2008 08:33:56

I had a situation with the OEM hydraulics... I did not like it and it leaked! This is how I re-plumbed my hydraulics to eliminate the old hoses/brazed lines/banjo fittings. This may not be permanent, I may re-route and/or make steel lines later. This is VERY functional and leak-free. Also it was cost effective if you have "resources". Opinions?

<a href="http://s262.photobucket.com/albums/ii89/nsula_country/?action=view&current=CIMG1288.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii89/nsula_country/CIMG1288.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s262.photobucket.com/albums/ii89/nsula_country/?action=view&current=CIMG1284.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii89/nsula_country/CIMG1284.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s262.photobucket.com/albums/ii89/nsula_country/?action=view&current=CIMG1270.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii89/nsula_country/CIMG1270.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s262.photobucket.com/albums/ii89/nsula_country/?action=view&current=CIMG1282.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii89/nsula_country/CIMG1282.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s262.photobucket.com/albums/ii89/nsula_country/?action=view&current=CIMG1899.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii89/nsula_country/CIMG1899.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s262.photobucket.com/albums/ii89/nsula_country/?action=view&current=CIMG1906.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii89/nsula_country/CIMG1906.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

"Fender Removed for Access"

<a href="http://s262.photobucket.com/albums/ii89/nsula_country/?action=view&current=CIMG1958.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii89/nsula_country/CIMG1958.jpg" border="0" alt="No More Banjo's!!! 2"></a>

<a href="http://s262.photobucket.com/albums/ii89/nsula_country/?action=view&current=CIMG1960.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii89/nsula_country/CIMG1960.jpg" border="0" alt="No More Banjo's!!! 1"></a>

<a href="http://s262.photobucket.com/albums/ii89/nsula_country/?action=view&current=CIMG1968.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii89/nsula_country/CIMG1968.jpg" border="0" alt="Hose Routing 3"></a>

<a href="http://s262.photobucket.com/albums/ii89/nsula_country/?action=view&current=CIMG1982.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii89/nsula_country/CIMG1982.jpg" border="0" alt="New Hose Routing 1"></a>

Lot of pictures Mark, but it may help you to see my "photo-manual" of how I improved a 50 year old mess. One day, I will probably rebuild with steel tube, but for now, this was FAR cheaper :lol: Any questions, I can try to help if possible. My e-mail is open. By the way, I am an Industrial, Multi-Craft Maintenance Technician and I work with hydraulics regularly.

Sorry for the long post,

Charles.

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JSharp

05-09-2008 07:01:59

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Re: Farmalls stink! in reply to Mark W., 05-08-2008 08:33:56

Mark - I can see why you might not want hoses running everywhere but the factory steel lines from a salvage yard may not be the best solution either. If for no other reason than they might have been sitting there rusting for who knows how long.

If you want steel lines a local hydraulic shop should be able to bend them for you. If you don't care about keeping things looking stock you might be able to fabricate what you need and get things working with a lot less hardware.

I did that on my 404. I'm sure the purists would whine if they saw it, but my tractor now has two rear remotes, one with the factory double piloted check valve and two sets of rear couplers. All of that is mounted to a simple bracket in the rear that I fabricated. 4 short hoses connect it to the control valves.

It's a lot simpler and cleaner than the stock setup and I don't have hoses hanging everywhere. For my use it's a lot better than the stock parts even if I had been able to find them in decent condition.

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Mark W.

05-09-2008 07:16:06

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Re: Farmalls stink! in reply to JSharp, 05-09-2008 07:01:59

Thank you very much for the advice. I believe I have my questions answered thanks to gentlemen such as yourself. To anyone who may read this, I am a huge IH, Farmall, and McCormick fan. Love all the reds and all the models. I am just not as well versed as some.

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Mark W.

05-09-2008 04:14:11

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Re: Farmalls stink! in reply to Mark W., 05-08-2008 08:33:56

Thanks to all that took my joke light-heartedly and offered some great advice. Sorry if I rustled some feathers.

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Hugh Mackay

05-09-2008 06:11:46

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Re: Farmalls stink! in reply to Mark W., 05-09-2008 04:14:11

Mark: I always heard it as "ruffled a few feathers", and no you didn't achive that. You said you didn't want a hose plumbing nightmare. When most Farmalls of that era were new they had factory steel plumbing to rear for fast hitch control. One remote was usually plumbed to right side and rear both. A third valve if so equipped was usually plumbed to left side.

If for example you had a loader, lift was hooked to left side and bucket tilt to right side. If you wanted to use the rear remote, all you needed do was snap out quick couplers for loader bucket. IH probably manufactured that steel plumbing for 20 years after tractor was built. If you want it today, scrap yard is your only source. When it comes to hydraulic plumbing, I doubt if any other manufacturer provided it more than 20 years. I know I had a Deere and within 10 years I was subistuting steel tubing for wire hose.

I merely suggested scrapyard was your only choice, and you came right back asking the same question again, "can one buy steel tubing". When that happened, I knew I was dealing with a comprehension problem.

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Mark W.

05-09-2008 06:22:49

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Re: Farmalls stink! in reply to Hugh Mackay, 05-09-2008 06:11:46

Actually, I do have a relatively severe learning disability. I do not do well in public and am quite often afraid to ask for advice for fear of looking like an idiot. I thought this forum was a way that I wouldn't be judged for my shortcomings. Some of my family does not have the patience to help me out so I thought I may find it here.

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usetabesteve

05-09-2008 07:31:40

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Re: Farmalls stink! in reply to Mark W., 05-09-2008 06:22:49

Mark, there probably is a way to get around that learning disability when working on these old tractors. When I was growing up, the best mechanic at the local IH dealership was illiterate. If he could find a picture of the unit he was working on he could fix it.

Hugh MacKay might be a bit gruff but is very knowledgeable. He is persistent, too. He has probably owned or operated, or had neighbors who owned most all of these old tractors.

The old tractors are not that complicated but a lot of times only come apart and go back together one way. If money is not a problem, buy the shop manual, service manual, and operator's manual for your tractor. Do you have a digital camera? You may need to take pictures of your tractor with you to the tractor salvage yard so you know what you have and what you need there. If you find a comparable tractor, then take pictures as you take it apart to get the pieces you want. Then you have them to follow as it goes back together.

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Hugh Mackay

05-09-2008 08:36:36

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Re: Farmalls stink! in reply to usetabesteve, 05-09-2008 07:31:40

Steve: Well put, even with all the years experience I have, if I'm buying a component at a salvage yard or from an individual, I find a parts book very valuable to make sure I have everything I need for the project to be a success. Nothing worse than getting home and discover you should have had one more part.

I'll give you good example, and in this case I knew I wasn't getting all. A one point fast hitch from a Farmall 100, 130 or 140. The rear rockshaft and spring assist were missing. I bought the rest of it for mere nothing. Figured I'd find the missing parts some day. Well, that was 17 years ago. Most folks don't want to part with a rear rockshaft and spring assist without selling the whole hitch, and whole hitches are usually $500. Needless to say, I still have those parts I bought 17 years ago, the good part, scrap prices are up.

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J.J. from Afton

05-08-2008 22:52:33

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Re: Farmalls stink! in reply to Mark W., 05-08-2008 08:33:56

Id say your better off going with flexible hoses. Our 340 has 3 remotes, one for the 3pt and two aux. When we needed to hook a disc up to it many years ago we just hooked into the remote coming out on the right under the dash. Ran em along the side of the transmission and madde a bracket to hold em up a couple inches over from the center link bracket. Works great.

Sorry dont have any close up pics right now. But could get some more of our set up if you want.

Jordan

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Zach Bouchard

05-08-2008 20:18:44

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Re: Deeres stink! in reply to Mark W., 05-08-2008 08:33:56

If Farmalls stink, I can't even imagine what a deere smells like

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CNKS

05-08-2008 17:56:01

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Re: Farmalls stink! in reply to Mark W., 05-08-2008 08:33:56

If you have a fast hitch or 3 point (don't remember which the 340 had), you can see if you can find the same lines from salvage and connect to one of the blocks. Otherwise you either have to have steel ones made or use rubber hoses. I would vote for the hoses, particularly if you don't need the middle. The 340 could use 3 remotes, I believe, you just add the blocks to the others. They can probably be found at salvage and rebuilt, mostly just orings. If you do not have a parts book, go to www.caseih.com and look at the parts diagrams -- and cut out the wiseeared remarks.

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TxFarmallFan

05-08-2008 11:25:06

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Re: Farmalls stink! in reply to Mark W., 05-08-2008 08:33:56

I'll have to admit, I got pretty p$@^*d when I saw the title of this post. You might've gotten more help with a better choice of words for your post title.

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Hugh Mackay

05-08-2008 09:00:06

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Re: Farmalls stink! in reply to Mark W., 05-08-2008 08:33:56

Mark: You should have bought them new 40 years ago with the tractor. It is nothing more than plumbing from those front valves. They probably made those 20 years. I guess it's scrap yard for you.

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Mark W.

05-08-2008 09:15:36

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Re: Farmalls stink! in reply to Hugh Mackay, 05-08-2008 09:00:06

How do I go about plumbing it to the rear? Do i use the same block? Do they make hard lines that go under the seat? Sorry for so many questions!

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Hugh Mackay

05-08-2008 15:11:01

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Re: Farmalls stink! in reply to Mark W., 05-08-2008 09:15:36

Mark: You've already got all the help you deserve. If you can't comprehend what we've told you, just maybe Foxworthy will start a nw quiz show for you to compete in, "Are you smarter than kindergarden".

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Mark W.

05-09-2008 04:12:35

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Re: Farmalls stink! in reply to Hugh Mackay, 05-08-2008 15:11:01

Hey Hugh, you don't like my questions then don't respond. By the way, you should have stated are you smarter than a kindergartner?
Watch your spelling, no one would want to accuse you of not being a genius!!!!! !!

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momma taught you better

05-09-2008 00:20:31

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Re: Farmalls stink! in reply to Hugh Mackay, 05-08-2008 15:11:01

Mr. Mackay that remark was totally uncalled for.

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Chuck40

05-08-2008 18:07:50

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Re: Farmalls stink! in reply to Hugh Mackay, 05-08-2008 15:11:01

Come now Hughy baby. I think the man deserves a little more than what you feel he does.

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mkirsch

05-08-2008 19:34:26

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Re: Farmalls stink! in reply to Chuck40, 05-08-2008 18:07:50

Every man's entitled to his opinion, and if you're a Utility fan, it's all good as long as it has an IH logo on the hood :)

Besides Farmalls DO stink! That sweet stink of good old-fashioned antique tractor exhaust coming from the muffler!

Anyway, I'd rethink the flexible hose idea. You could be a long time trying to find usable hard lines at a salvage yard.

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usetabesteve

05-08-2008 09:18:49

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Re: Farmalls stink! in reply to Mark W., 05-08-2008 09:15:36

When you get to the scrap yard, you will understand. Start taking things apart on the donor tractor until you get all the parts from the plugs at the rear of the tractor to the pieces that hook into the rest of the hydraulic system you have.

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