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Harry Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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to20 tractor overheats

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P.J.

07-17-2003 06:47:35




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I have had my TO20 boil out the overflow onthe radiator, both steam and water/antifreeze. I notice it is worse whenthe nose of the tractor goes down on an incline. I started looking for a reason and discovered three things:
1. My radiator cap was a 7 pound cap, I got a new one that was a 10 pound cap, could that be the reason?
2. My tractor had no thermostat. I put one in the hose. What is the effect of not having a thermostat? Could this cause my boilover?
3. I don't have a temp guage. I don't see anywhere in the water pump, hose fittings, etc to put a sensor. Can someone advise me on the easiest way to put a temp guage on my old to20? I don't want to drill or anything. I searched the Forum and could only find one quote about using a plug onthe block to insert the sensor.
I had earlier sprayed the radiator to clean, tightened the belt, etc. All help is appreciated!

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Jerry

07-17-2003 11:08:06




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 Re: to20 tractor overheats in reply to P.J., 07-17-2003 06:47:35  
P.J. See my post entitled "TO-20 Overheating -P.J." Some how I ended up writing a new post instead of answering yours!Guess I had a "Senior Moment".
To summarize my response I'd say the following: 1) a temperture guage is available with a sensor that installs in a boss on the coolant outflow elbow;2) check the timing (too retarded);3) check the carb mixture (too lean;)4) Check for a collapsed lower radiator hose when operating.
Another thought. Make sure you have the thermostst in stalled correctly with the "pellet" end toward the engine and make sure have have filled the entire cooling system and block when you refill. Hope this helps.

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James, UK

07-17-2003 07:08:31




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 Re: to20 tractor overheats in reply to P.J., 07-17-2003 06:47:35  
Lots of stuff here:-

1 Maybe you just had a leaky rad cap - 7lbs should be OK. 10lbs or higher may lead to burst radiator core.

2 Not having a thermostat should make your engine cooler - so maybe whoever removed the stat had already had trouble and was trying to keep the engine running cooler.

3 If you overfill the cooling system it will chuck out what it doesn't want - always looks spectacular - fill to the top of the cooling fins you can see with the cap off, and no higher.

4 The radiator core could be partially blocked - try a reverse flush with a hose or remove the rad, and get the core professionally pickled/cleaned.

5 Lack of maintenance or just years of topping up with pond water can cause silt to accumulate in the block, normally at the back end nearest the driver - leading to poor cooling and hot spots. When water reaches these hot spots, it boils, turns into steam, expands, and excess fluid is forced out of the radiator. I got a lot of crud out of my block when I did the head - I used a flattened bit of copper pipe on a shop vac to vacuum out the crud = happy tractor. If you don't want to remove the head, use a fire hose or similar, and flush the block thoroughly.

6 Maybe your water pump impellor is slipping on the shaft - don't worry the shaft won't come out as it is pressed onto the bearing - or maybe the impellor is chipped/broken and not working as well as it should. Check for flow by looking into rad when engine is running - BE CAREFUL of hot water splashes in eyes/face.

Some stuff to check, anyway.

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John Fugit

07-17-2003 11:23:52




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 Re: Re: to20 tractor overheats in reply to James, UK, 07-17-2003 07:08:31  
I don't want to disagree with something that has worked for someone else, but.... I have had several old tractors to work on over the years, that were overheating. I will look to see if they have a thermostsat. It's not uncommon for people to remove them, in an effort to make them run cooler. I have found on a number of occations that removing the t-stat will make the run hotter. A buddy of mine that runs a radiator shop tells me that the water doesn't stay in the radiator long enough to cool down properly. I would check to see if the water pump impellor is moving. I have had a number of them that were not leaking, just weren't pumping. Makes 'em heat up real quick!

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P.J

07-17-2003 07:19:26




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 Re: Re: to20 tractor overheats in reply to James, UK, 07-17-2003 07:08:31  

Thanks for the response, I might add that the engine was completely rebuit last year so there is no sediment, etc. The antifreeze looks good, and was replaced a year ago. Do you really think the 10 pound cap is dangerous for the radiator? I will check the raditor flow when I use the tractor next, was just wanting some feedback from this group as they have been very helpful in the past.



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James, UK

07-17-2003 07:58:04




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 Re: Re: Re: to20 tractor overheats in reply to P.J, 07-17-2003 07:19:26  
I can't remember what the spec was for the cap - I think it was only 4lbs. All I'm saying is be careful - increasing the pressure the system works at won't help it to run cooler, and more than doubling the pressure the system is at could do more harm than good. All increasing the pressure does is to raise the temperature at which the water boils.

If your engine is clear of crud, it would be worth checking the rad core is clear.

One thing I forgot - check your fan belt is tight - no more than 1/2 inch of movement possible on longest exposed run.

Personally, I would stick with the correct rad cap and find out what the real problem is, and not just try to hide it.

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Duner Wi

07-21-2003 08:22:04




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: to20 tractor overheats in reply to James, UK, 07-17-2003 07:58:04  
I believe the early TO had 4 lb. cap and then went to 7 lb. cap an later TO's. I put a coolant recovery system on my TO and have not had problems with loosing coolant.



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James, UK Another thought

07-17-2003 08:00:04




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: to20 tractor overheats in reply to James, UK, 07-17-2003 07:58:04  
If your engine was rebuilt last year, check it isn't your cylinder head gasket that is causing the problem - it was re-torqued after a few hours running after the rebuild, wasn't it?

Often the head gasket will 'settle' and the head needs to be tightened down again - this could also be your problem.



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P.J.

07-17-2003 08:12:20




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: to20 tractor overheats in reply to James, UK Another thought, 07-17-2003 08:00:04  
Actually, the head was not retorgued after running a while. Here's a non'mechanic question, How do you retorque? Should I just try to re-tighten the bolt on the head? I got the radiator cap from a massey ferguson dealer, and did not notice the difference until I got home.



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James, UK

07-17-2003 08:21:14




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: to20 tractor overheats in reply to P.J., 07-17-2003 08:12:20  
Remove fuel tank, remove valve cover, tighten head bolts (there is a specific pattern to follow doing this - someone may be able to email or describe it to you - also check archives) From memory there are 16 to 18 nuts to tighten.

Check your tappet clearances after re-torquing the head.

Gotta go - the 'working' day has ended, and it is time I was off - good luck. Will be back on tomorrow :)

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P.J.

07-22-2003 06:36:43




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: to20 tractor overheats in reply to James, UK, 07-17-2003 08:21:14  
Just to update my helpers on this board. I used the tractor over the weekend with the new cap and the inline thermostat, and the tractor never overheated or pushed coolant out the overflow. I did not get the temp meter so I don't know how hot. I still hope to get the meter installed. One question, there is a bolt on the side of the housing that returns from the engine to the top hose for the radiator. Can this bolt be removed and a manual sensor for the temp meter be installed there?

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Jerry/MT

07-24-2003 19:55:41




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: to20 tractor overh in reply to P.J., 07-22-2003 06:36:43  
P.J.:
That's where my temperature sensor is installed. It's a cappillary tube type and it includes the gauge.



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