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Harry Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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check chain question (safety)

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overunder1

07-13-2006 11:44:42




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I installed two check chains between the cast lugs on top of the differential housing and the lower lift arm attachment points on a rather heavy 5' rotary cutter. I have them adjusted to limit lower travel at the point where the cutter is level front to rear on flat ground. I am concerned about the loading on the chains. A rough guess puts the weight on each chain at @200 pounds when the lift is lowered. Is this the correct way to install them and also am I within safety limits as to loading? Being my first foray into cutting without a position control and the inherent danger in not setting up equipment properly I thought advice would be a good thing :)
-Lee
1954 TO-30

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overunder1

07-13-2006 12:42:33




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 Re: check chain question (safety) in reply to overunder1, 07-13-2006 11:44:42  
John, I have stabilizer bars installed alongside the lift arms to control side to side movement. By using the two attachment points cast into the top of the differential housing, (right next to the top link attach point) it is a straight drop to the lower link of @2ft. I checked for lift binding and as the cutter raises the chains actually go slack rather than limit the amount of lift. I am not using the original chains which attached to either side of the PTO since adding the bars. Where I guess I am lost with Marlow's post that you included is will the control spring, (which is functioning well and completely adjustable) be able to control the lower limit of the lift bars so that the cutter will not drop to the ground given the lack of position control? Sorry to be long winded.
-Lee

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gshadel

07-13-2006 13:50:54




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 Re: check chain question (safety) in reply to overunder1, 07-13-2006 12:42:33  
OK, Looks like John clarified the chains.
I recommend you get check chains too, If you have most of the mounting hardware still, they are real cheap. The height control chains, or some guys call them limiting chains, hold the cutter at a set height. If you have a standard set of limiting chains, you are well within it's working weight limits. Yes, from the pin on top the diffy, to the lower implement mounting pins, crossed... but you don't need them! Follow Marlowe's instructions and you will find the cutter maintains the height you set very nicely. You adjust the top link length to establish the lower riding level, the hydraulics will lift the cutter as needed when going over rough terrain, and return the cutter to the original level when you are back on level ground. You do nothing but drive a straight line and watch out for rocks and stumps. Works great. I have a position controller, and limit chains, and no longer use either when bush hogging, now that I mount my cutter according to Marlowe. Make sure you are using a over-run coupling with your mower, very dangerous without it.

George

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overunder1

07-13-2006 14:32:17




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 Re: check chain question (safety) in reply to gshadel, 07-13-2006 13:50:54  
Yes, I do have an over-running clutch installed. It appears that I will have to use limit chains and not Marlow's method since---
1. this rotary cutter weighs close to 1000 pounds
2. the cutter has a moveable top bracket
3. the cutter does have a tail wheel

I may be way off base but the force required to lift the front of the cutter off the ground so it is level with the back using only the top link without raising the lift arms may overpower the spring and bottom out the control rod. This is why I went to limit chains and asked about the safety issue :)

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marlowe

07-15-2006 07:33:02




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 Re: check chain question (safety) in reply to overunder1, 07-13-2006 14:32:17  
if that mower wt. is 1000 lbs witch i don't think it is then forsure you don't want to use check chains you need the rear tail wheel on the ground and the mower to flot or you can't stear the tractor



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John (UK)

07-14-2006 10:19:18




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 Re: check chain question (safety) in reply to overunder1, 07-13-2006 14:32:17  
You are thinking the wrong way around here, there is no pressure down the top link when you lift it so it wont do anything to the Spring or anything in that region, it is quite capable of handling any weight that the tractor can lift. When you lift the mower to transport it you get the same effect on the Spring, well actually it isn't on the spring when it is carrying it, the plunger rod through the spring carries the weight and that comes up against the Top Cover casting when it is under load, this is one reason you should never charge around with a raised implement, if you hit a hole in the road it will bounce and throw the implement up in the air and when it falls down something has to take the shock. So heavier the implement the slower you travel with it.(Common sense really) When you use Marlowe's method for your Hog the Top Link does NOT carry the mower in work like you are thinking, you lengthen it, this pushes against the Spring, which allows the Control Valve to move to the LIFT position as it would when controlling the depth of a plow and the hydraulics lift until there is no load down the top link then it drops again and repeats it all over again, but the amount of movement between pressure down the top link and no pressure down it is small so it looks as though it never moves. So actually there is very little load on the Spring or top link when in work, probably less than a plow all the weight is where it should be, on the lower links.

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overunder1

07-14-2006 14:15:47




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 Re: check chain question (safety) in reply to John (UK), 07-14-2006 10:19:18  
Thanks all who replied. I now have the check chains remounted to prevent the arms from contacting the tires when no implement is attached, I do have the limiter chains installed to just barely keep the rotary cutter off the ground so that if the pto is not engaged I can move about without tearing a divot in my barn floor, and have set the top link tension per Marlow's suggestion to keep things level while mowing. As noted by others, setting up a cutter correctly is not a plug and play operation but now that it is set up it works like a champ.
-Lee

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John (UK)

07-16-2006 11:53:25




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 Re: check chain question (safety) in reply to overunder1, 07-14-2006 14:15:47  
If you have the mower on the tractor you should disconnect the PTO shaft if you just need to lift and transport it. If you leave the PTO shaft connected then then obviously the blade will turn and travelling with the blade turning is not a good idea. Don"t expect the hydraulics to hold the mower up as it is heavy and it will gradually sink down, with the PTO running it will keep the mower lifted automatically.

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John (UK)

07-13-2006 13:10:45




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 Re: check chain question (safety) in reply to overunder1, 07-13-2006 12:42:33  
You said check chains and I took it to mean the original check chains that you have removed. There is no need to remove them and you should refit them as you will need to do that sooner or later. Even if you have the stabiliser bars fitted you still need the check chains because if you take the implement off and drive the tractor the link arms will swing into the wheels and maybe do some damage, they also hold the implement in position when it is fully raised, so it does need them. If you want to keep those Height Control Chains on then make sure that they are crossed so that the right chain is on the left of the top link connection and the left chain is on the right. The answer to your question is what Marlowe's posting was all about, if you follow what he says then it should control the height of the front of the mower using what is the Draft Control of the tractor, try it and see. The only thing that we may have missed here is that your mower does need a fixed top link attachment point, not one that moves back and forward to allow the machine to follow the contours, if it has a loose top link then go back to the height control chains a Position Control will only do what they do unless you move the lever all the time to control the height that is why it is better and easier to let the tractor do it for you if the mower is suitable.

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overunder1

07-13-2006 13:37:20




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 Re: check chain question (safety) in reply to John (UK), 07-13-2006 13:10:45  
English is such a wonderfull language :)
My bad I meant limit chains. This cutter weighs close to 1000 pounds. I have a solid top link from the control spring to the cutter (no chains here). The attachment point for that top link is not slotted, however, the riser that has the two implement pins at the bottom and the top link attachment point at the top on the cutter is free to move. I was able to set the lower height as suggested by using the adjustable top link ---but--- the compression of the spring appeared to be bottoming out the control rod. By using limit chains I was able to reduce the load on the top link and then able to set the control spring tension. I will replace the check chains this evening. Thanks for helping out John, this ol girl will mow like an enraged hen chasing worms but I sure want to make sure I am safe while doing so. There have been so many posts about rotary cutter useage and injuries from improper setup.
-Lee

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Jerry/MT

07-14-2006 12:25:14




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 Re: check chain question (safety) in reply to overunder1, 07-13-2006 13:37:20  
Have you tried running with that 1000 pound mower on your TO-30? That's a lot of weight for a three point mounted mower on this machine. My concern is steering control with that much weght hung off the back of the tractor. I would think you would need some front ballast especially if you try to go up hill. I have a 725 pound mower that I believe will require front ballast when I run it on my TO-30 because just carryig it around on the threepoint while on level ground makes the steering very light. Lowering the mower to the ground takes some of the load off the tractor via the tail wheel but I think the stability and steering as well as braking are marginal. I can't imagine how it would be with a 1000 pound mower.
Check this out before you try to mow and have a plan to ballast the front end. I'm also surprised tht you can lift a 1000 pound mower because the lift is only good to about 750-800 pounds.

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overunder1

07-16-2006 08:20:47




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 Re: check chain question (safety) in reply to Jerry/MT, 07-14-2006 12:25:14  
Jerry, you are right. I found an ID plate and have a King Kutter 5' medium duty cutter. According to their website it weighs in at @700 pounds. If I lift it completely off the ground the front end does get light but now having mowed a rolling pasture it is fine both up and downhill, but the grade is not too steep. As I get used to this TO-30 I am constantly surprised at how much useable power these old machines have.
-Lee

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John (UK)

07-13-2006 13:45:31




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 Re: check chain question (safety) in reply to overunder1, 07-13-2006 13:37:20  
I am not quite sure what you mean about the top link, it needs a pressure down it from the implement so it can compress the spring to control the implement. If the top link frame on the mower can move then it can't control the mower using Marlowe's method and you will need to use the Height Control Chains. Position Control is very handy and not as fiddling as messing around with chains, but don't think that it will float over the ground because it wont, only with a fixed top link connection on the mower can it do that. By a fixed top link connection, think of how it is on a plow or a tiller, it is fixed to that it can compress the Control Spring to control the depth in the ground, for the mower we are cheating a little but it will do it providing the mower is right.If you want to see a position Control, look at Zane's site for the "Zane Thang" or Google it to find it.

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John (UK)

07-13-2006 11:55:37




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 Re: check chain question (safety) in reply to overunder1, 07-13-2006 11:44:42  
No this is incorrect, the check chains are to stop the implement swinging into the wheels when it is in the raised position. As you have it now it will be unable to lift to maximum height and the safety valve will keep blowing. The check chain anchor brackets should be fitted with the chain connected in the top part (above PTO height) you should reverse them to the correct position, make sure that they are not twisted, so that there will be no damage to the tractor. Regarding operating your mower if it has wheels on the rear then you can operate it successfully if you follow the instructions from our friend on here (YTMAG) "Marlowe" who sells and services them, I post his reply to query similar to yours from some time ago:-
Posted by marlowe on June 23, 2004 at 16:01:09 from (209.103.204.81):

In Reply to: position control...chains?? posted by mr chapp on June 23, 2004 at 06:16:49:

dear mister chapp. i have sold and serviced hogs for years and see this all the time. PLEASE don't take this wrong but it's a real common mistake that they are not beening mounted right.i know what your thinking how hard is it to put a hog on a tractor and go cut some grass? but!! your hog has a tail wheel right? your tractor has 2 lower lift arms right? set your hog on a 4x4 so it is level lower your tail wheel so it's on the ground. now put your tractor on but[[[[ DON'T]]] hook up the PTO with tractor running put the 3pt. control lever in the middle of the range and turn your top link so it will get longer and you will feel you 3pt. raise just a little and the stop but when you make the top link long it will raise a little more that because the control piston under the set is being pushed in and that makes you 3pt. lift untill the pressure is releasted.with a little fine tuning and a little setting of the tail wheel up or down for the height of cut you want your hog will cut at the height you want. if you have ANY questions call me i will help you set it right 1-920-446-3296 your hog should not be hanging on the tractor when your cutting but rideing on the tail wheel and the 3pt. at a set height and that is controled by your top link. good luck and if you need help call.
If you still have problems after all that, please post again and give us details....John

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