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Harry Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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Message for John (UK)

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Bear Creek

08-28-2006 11:23:52




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John I have been reading your posts and am greatful for your experience and knowledge you bring to the discussions. I was wondering if you had any thoughts on welding a block on say a TO20 or TO30? Any idea what type of welding rod should be used? Would MIG welding be better that arc?




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Bill Brox

08-29-2006 17:06:06




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 Re: Message for John (UK) in reply to Bear Creek, 08-28-2006 11:23:52  
Bear Creek.

Welding cast iron is tricky. It is tricky for the welder himself, and it is tricky for the company which make the welding rod. The reason for this is that cast iron expand so much when heated.
I have never heard it was possible to weld cast iron with a mig welder, but then, I have heard so little of what is to be heard in life, that it may be possible too.

In general, there is 3 ways of welding cast iron, weld it cold, weld it warm, and weld as it was regular construction steel.

To weld cold, you normally use a nickel rod like UTP 8, and weld just a small bit, so small that you can put your hand directly on the welded spot without getting burned. Yes, it is possible. When welding just a short distance, in the time you have removed your mask, and taken off your gloves, the weld should be cool enough to touch. Then, use a pin hammer to hammer the weld out. Weld a little more, and hammer it. If the cast iron gets too warm, you need to slow down and let it cool until it has a low temperature before you continue.

Second way is to weld hot, it means you have to warm the entire piece of cast iron, and then you can weld, more or less as regular construction steel.

Third way is to neither weld cold or hot, but just weld. To do this you need a special welding rod, and I have no idea if anyone else than Certanium makes such rods. You just weld as if it was regular construction steel, and it sticks, and it will not break or crack....
I have seen engine blocks repaired like this, only the coolant emptied so much that it was not sipping out of the crack... then the crack was welded, from one end to the other... it was allowed to cool, then coolant was topped up, and the engine started and the boat left for the fishing fields.

As John says, it is a good thing to drill a hole at the end of the crack to stop further cracking, and then grind a V to fill up.

I have used the Certanium welding rod myself, I have some. But, I have used it a very little so I am not very used to it, as I got it very recently.
The way I am used to, is the cold welding method.


Best regards, Bill

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John (TR)

08-29-2006 13:03:49




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 Re: Message for John (UK) in reply to Bear Creek, 08-28-2006 11:23:52  
For cracks on the external surfaces of the block I believe you drill the ends of the crack with small dia drill bit to stop the crack from running. Then you v grind the crack so that you can get penetration close to the bottom of the crack. use Nickel Rod and after preheating the general area you weld the crack and depending on who you ask you may want to build the area with a couple of passes over the top but only after cleaning each pass. Also don't weld all at once, and keep the entire are warm while working it.
In theory when you complete you bury the part in sand so that is cools real slow so you don't end up with new cracks.

I've welded steel for years and cast occasionally for a couple of years, an engine block is probably not the place to learn how to weld not to mention welding cast. If you are new to welding this would be a good time to hire it done. I don't know about the continental motors but the Ford N blocks get welded somewhat frequently and successfully, depending on where the crack is. If the crack is internal in the block there are comapnaies tha can do it but that is another story.
just my $.02

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George Fager

08-29-2006 00:02:33




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 Re: Message for John (UK) in reply to Bear Creek, 08-28-2006 11:23:52  
I Have seen it done and its a long job done with an arc welder with rods for cast iron. Block must be preheated then welded or welded in small stages and left to cool between each stage. If you have a local welding suply ask what rods to uses. Personly would hire some one that has done it before and I can weld.



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John (UK)

08-28-2006 14:08:17




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 Re: Message for John (UK) in reply to Bear Creek, 08-28-2006 11:23:52  
We never welded cylinder blocks we weren't allowed to do that.We didn't have the welding equipment they have now.I know that that some of the guys on here have carried this out successfully and they have a better knowledge than me for doing this. So just wait a while and someone will read this and give you the information you need.....John



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