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Harry Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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tea 20 woes... the drama continues...

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corey farnswort

09-29-2007 16:05:02




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ok so last year i wrote about my tea20 running for approx. 20 min the dieing on me till the next morning.after all ive done, it still happens... here we go, ive replaced the coil and condenser twice, replaced the wires cap and plugs, replaced the points and gapped them correctly, rebuilt the carb, replaced the starter(2 yrs ago, unrelated) changed the oil and filter (unrelated), replaced the generator, replaced the on/off switch, confirmed the bowl is clean and fuel is running through the line at the time of stall, and rebuilt the carb. here are the symtoms: at run time there is a clean bluish spark. At time of no life there is no spark (when turning over).once again about 20 min after running but tonight it was only 11 min. at this point i want to light it on fire then shoot it but i have a really long driveway and i would hate to make my wife shovel it again this winter LOL... PLEASE HELP! seriously though this thing is driving me insane, if you help me get it running i'll put you in my will...

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Lance J.

10-01-2007 10:20:22




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 Re: tea 20 woes... the drama continues... in reply to corey farnsworth, 09-29-2007 16:05:02  
I am not nearly as qualified or experienced as many others on this site, but I just thought I should add the following caveat. Performance ignition coils intended for race engines often do not work well with factory distributors, regardless of what the advertisements say. Also, many of them do not work well with point type ignitions because of high primary resistance and so produce a weak, unreliable spark. They usually do their best with an electronic ignition with a specific, proprietary module. A quality Napa or Carquest unit is your best bet. This is based on my experience with auto service customers who believe the hoopla and spend big bucks on a racing coil thinking they are getting easy horsepower and instead end up with an engine that spits and sputters.

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chuck130

10-01-2007 09:27:27




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 Re: tea 20 woes... the drama continues... in reply to corey farnsworth, 09-29-2007 16:05:02  
Corey, I hear ya! I have the exact same problem which I have not been able to rectify. Like you, I know what it's not. What I know is that my (totally rebuilt) machine starts and runs well. Once hot, if I shut it off, it won't restart. Connect a different coil (I have 3) and it starts and runs. Yadda, yadda, yadda.

Like JerryMT suggests, I suspect the coil is breaking down, but why? Given that the tractor (and coil) are 12V positive ground, the wiring to the coil is correct, the condensor, points, plugs, wires are all new, the ignition switch is not the culprit (bypassed it with no improvement), I'm dumbfounded. Bottom line, the coil has to be breaking down, but why/how.

Thanks to all those who try to help.

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Jerry//MT

10-01-2007 11:13:04




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 Re: tea 20 woes... the drama continues... in reply to chuck130, 10-01-2007 09:27:27  
Hey guys, a coil for a 12 V system is not the same as a coil for 6V system. The proper 12 V coil has a built in resistance that limits the current through the coil OR it has a note on it that says you must use a resistor in series with with the coil.



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corey farnsworth

09-30-2007 18:06:16




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 Re: tea 20 woes... the drama continues... in reply to corey farnsworth, 09-29-2007 16:05:02  
please see new post under last response thanks!



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Jerry/MT

09-30-2007 15:18:15




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 Re: tea 20 woes... the drama continues... in reply to corey farnsworth, 09-29-2007 16:05:02  
What electrical system do you have, 6V, + ground or 12 V, - ground? What voltage is your coil rated for? It sounds to me like your problem maybe coil overheating due to using a 6 V coil in a 12V system without the requisite current limiting resistor. This problem usually manifests itself in 20 minutes to a half hour of running with the engine dying and not being able to be immediately restarted. Trying to restart in a couple of hours is usually successful only to have the engine die again. What happens is that the coil overheats and melts the tarlike insulation on the wires causing an internal short in the coil. After cooling down the tar solidifies and the engine restarts only to overheat the coil again and the process starts all over again. The solution is to get a real 12V coil( some have fine print stamped on them that say "requires a resistor")like NAPA IC-14SB(~$15), Or get a the proper resisitor in series with the coil to limit the primary current to about 4 amps max.(3 ohms with a 12 V system).

The other posibility is a bad key switch. These usually overheat in 10-15 minutes and the high resistance makes for a weak spark which causes the engine to die. Again it may start up again when in cools. Put a jumper acroos the key switch to eliminate or verify the possibilty that the key switch is bad.

Hope this helps.

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corey farnsworth

09-30-2007 18:04:44




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 Re: tea 20 woes... the drama continues... in reply to Jerry/MT, 09-30-2007 15:18:15  
I have a 12 volt neg earth system. here is what i've got so far... first, what does NOS mean? this could be important. second, i just replaced the coil with a real ACCELL 12 volt heavy duty and got a new condenser made in the usa. after this did not remedy the problem I took a deep look at the wiring and fount that there is a rats nest of frayed cloth covered wiring in between the generator and control box. the line from the control box going into the cellanoid is very tarnished on the box end, also the ground coming from the control box is covered in a heavy layer of oil and dirt, also the wiring to and from the on/off switch seems to be frayed a bit. i have a new control box and am planning to install it with all new wires and connects.
If im not mistaken it should be easy
four connects on tne control box F and D are pos and neg to the gen. then one pos to the cellanoid and the other to a solid ground.please explain what exactly neg. earth means. im a bit confused. Im still considering setting it on fire... i was told however if i shoot it i might get hit with a ricochet. this might be fitting at this point...

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Jeff-oh

10-01-2007 07:39:06




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 Re: tea 20 woes... the drama continues... in reply to corey farnsworth, 09-30-2007 18:04:44  
NOS in the parts since... ie NOS coil. means New- Old- Stock. ie. a part that was manufactured awhile ago, perhapes when these tractors were new, but has never been installed... i.e old wearhouse stock.



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Jerry/MT

09-30-2007 21:03:06




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 Re: tea 20 woes... the drama continues... in reply to corey farnsworth, 09-30-2007 18:04:44  
NOS used in reference to what?

Negative ground means, in simple terms, the negative terminal of your battery is conncted to the chasis, the chasis being the return loop for the current extracted from the positve terminal of the battery and connected to some load. The chasis completes the circuit. I hope I've made that clear. Your tractor, as I understand it, runns for awhile and dies. You have a 12 Volt system, YOU MUST HAVE A TRUE 12 V COIL or YOU MUST HAVE A RESISTOR TO LIMIT THE CURRENT TO A 6 V COIL OR YOU WILL OVERHEAT IT. Overheating will melt the insulation in the coil in about 20-30 minutes after starting and cause the engine to quit. In an hour or so the engine maybe restarted only to run for another 20-30 minutes and die. Certainly bad wiring will not help the situation but your symptoms, as described, can be caused by an improper coil. Make sur ethat you have a true 12V coil. The OEM system was 6V on this machine, I believe. ALs check the key switch because they can get crudded up and have a high reistance which will limit primary current and cause a very weak spark about 10 minutes after start up.

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gerard

09-30-2007 12:12:38




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 Re: tea 20 woes... the drama continues... in reply to corey farnsworth, 09-29-2007 16:05:02  
You say spark fails - so we can rule out fuel issues. I"d follow advice in reply below - hot wire from battery to coil. If that doesn"t fix it it"s either coil or condenser - and I"d suspect condenser. You may have fitted new ones, but were they NOS? Condensers don"t wear out, they fail with age. If the ones you"ve used are new (as in unused but old never the less) I"d suspect that. Try a newly manufactured condenser. Doesn"t have to be exactly the same as long as it fits. I"ve had to rig condensers outside distributors on old engines before now, when I couldn"t get fresh ones of the right type.

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Bob (Aust)

09-29-2007 16:51:45




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 Re: tea 20 woes... the drama continues... in reply to corey farnsworth, 09-29-2007 16:05:02  
At one stage my TEA20 went through a bit of that and I suspected fuel vapour lock as the fuel line from the tank to carby passes around the back of the engine and can get quite warm.

However, you say no spark?

If you have a multimeter or volt meter, when it dies do you still have 12 volts at the coil? (Between Neg coil connection and earth?)

You say you don't have spark - at the coil or at the plugs? Take the coil center lead out of the distributor cap, hold 1/4" from the engine and either flick the points or turn the engine over. No spark there?

Check you have the coil correctly connected. If still positive earth, the ignition switch is connected to the negative side of the coil; positive side of the coil to distributor points.

Next time it dies, connect a wire direct from the battery to the coil; if still positive earth, battery negative to coil negative. That will eliminate your ignition switch and wiring from your problem. If you still have no spark, one can only suspect the wrong coil or the coil or condenser is breaking down under heat or load.

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Bob (Aust)

09-29-2007 17:17:45




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 tea 20 woes... the drama continues... in reply to Bob (Aust), 09-29-2007 16:51:45  
Doesn't sound like an earth problem but you should eliminate another potential problem. If your earth lead still goes to the back of the dash, remove the earth, clean up all contacts and connect to the engine block or better still, the top starter motor mounting bolt.



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Bob (Aust)

09-30-2007 03:53:17




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 Re: tea 20 woes... the drama continues... in reply to Bob (Aust), 09-29-2007 17:17:45  
John (UK) in another thread mentioned something I'd forgotten that caused me problems some years ago. Check the vent hole in your fuel tank filler cap is open and free. If that hole blocks you will get a partial vacuum in the fuel tank, stopping the gravity feed.



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