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Harry Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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1948 TE20 muli problems

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Murray P.

12-10-2007 07:38:26




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I recently purchased what I was told is a 1948 TE20 Ferguson. The tractor easily fired and ran but had a oil leak on the engine where the head mated to the block. The guy I bought it from had purchased a complete engine gasket kit so I pulled the tractor into the barn an pulled the head off. I replaced the gasket and put everthing back together.

When I tried to start it back it fired right up, but it sounded like I had left the exhaust off because it made a horrible racket. so I turned it off after only 5 or 10 seconds run time, checked the exhaust hookup and all was tight.

Tried to start it again and nothing put clicking, from the sylenoid. So I pulled it off and went and bought another one. When I put it on the tractor I could not get even a clik out of it so I put the old one back onto the tractor and now it won't even click.

I checked the charge on the battery and charged it to 100% and still nothing.

The previous owner said he had recently had it converted over to 12 volts. but after running the tractor for an hour he melted off the ground wire.

Thanks: Murray

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Bob (Aust)

12-11-2007 13:17:45




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 Re: 1948 TE20 muli problems in reply to Murray P., 12-10-2007 07:38:26  
third party image

That battery lead looks heavy enough to me.



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Bob (Aust)

12-10-2007 22:33:47




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 Re: 1948 TE20 muli problems in reply to Murray P., 12-10-2007 07:38:26  
You must host photos on a web site and type the URL in your post. I can't find an explanationon on this site, although I am sure there is one, however here is an explanation from another bulletin board I moderate:

----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ---

To post a picture it has to be on a website already - whether your own or someone else's. If it's not, all is not lost ..... read on.
If the picture already on a website .....
It will have an URL (the unique 'address' of that pic on the web)

To find the URL (using Windows):

Right-click on the picture and select 'Properties'

You'll see lots of info, including the URL.

Highlight and Copy the entire URL.

NB: Always highlight from the beginning or you may not get the full URL if it's long.

If the picture is on your hard disk .....
Option 1: Find a friend with a web site who will 'host' the picture for you They'll send you the URL for your picture so you can then post it.

or

Option 2: Use a photo-hosting site.
PhotoBucket seems to be the best, very simple to use and it's free.
An 'offshoot' of Photobucket is TinyPic but as far as I can see this one does not have a facility to resize the image.

Once you've loaded your picture on the host, it will give you the URL - or you can use the procedure described above.

Photobucket also allows you to reduce the size of any pics which are too big for the PPRuNe web page.

----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ---

Further details here

Photobucket

It also appears you could host the photo on this web site, here though I'm not sure how acceptable that would be to the site owners.
If all that is too complex, send me the photos by email, I'll re-size them, host on a web site and happily post here for you or send you the hosted photo URL! third party image

Bob in Oz

Email: bfulton@goldenwest.org.au

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Bob (Aust)

12-10-2007 12:27:04




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 Re: 1948 TE20 muli problems in reply to Murray P., 12-10-2007 07:38:26  
[quote:f175511136]"When I tried to start it back it fired right up, but it sounded like I had left the exhaust off because it made a horrible racket."[/quote:f175511136]

Have you checked if the starter motor free or jammed into the ring gear? That may explain the racket and now failure to turn over? Don't know about the TE but the Lucas starter on the TEA has a square section on the front end of the starter which you should be able to turn by hand or with a spanner.

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Jerry/MT

12-10-2007 10:17:37




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 Re: 1948 TE20 muli problems in reply to Murray P., 12-10-2007 07:38:26  
Lets make sure that you have a TE-20. Do you have the serial number off the plate on the dash above the steering wheel. What"s that number? It should be TE- something. When you put the head back on did you hook the spark plug wires correctly (1-3-4-2 firing order)?

Sounds like you have a non OEM starter switch if you have a solenoid. I wonder if the person who converted your electrical system changed the ground from the old positive ground on the 6v to the required negative ground on the 12V alternator system. (I"m presuming you have a 12V alternator not a Generator.) The ground lead on the battery should never get so hot that it melts.
The ominous solenoid click when you go to start is commonly caused by the solenoid engaging but not eneough current through the main solenoid contacts to cause the starter to turn. This usually caused by poor battery connections( dirty , corroded, etc), corrosion of the battery cables under the insulation or a break in the wire or too small a wire gauge on the cable. It can also be a faulty starter. WITH THE TRACTOR OUT OF GEAR, use jumper cables to jump from the battery to the starter. If the starter turns the engine over, the problem is in the solenoid part of the circuit. If the starter doesn"t turn, that"s the problem. Could be a dirty commutator, worn brushes, open field coil, etc. You"ll have to pull it and get it to a place that can test it and do some diagnostics on it.
Are you sure the solenoid is wired correctly? from the battery thru the ignition switch through the starter switch

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Murray P.

12-10-2007 10:27:58




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 Re: 1948 TE20 muli problems in reply to Jerry/MT, 12-10-2007 10:17:37  
I'll Check the serial number to be sue of what I have, thanks for that information.

I'm pretty sure I hooked the plug wires back up correctly.

I do have an Alternator.

I'll try the jumpercable trick & see what happens..



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Duner Wi

12-10-2007 09:49:32




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 Re: 1948 TE20 muli problems in reply to Murray P., 12-10-2007 07:38:26  
Is the engine free? Can you turn the engine over with the crank?? Or pull the plugs and use the fan belt to turn it over. Let us know how that works. Certain early flywheels had the ring gear installed so the starter gear can knock the ring gear of the flywheel towards the casting around it. Engine either locks up or you saw the tractor in two.



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Murray P.

12-11-2007 05:06:07




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 Re: 1948 TE20 muli problems in reply to Duner Wi, 12-10-2007 09:49:32  
I pulled the plugs out last night, motor does turns over.



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johnand cindy

12-10-2007 08:18:50




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 Re: 1948 TE20 muli problems in reply to Murray P., 12-10-2007 07:38:26  
Murray, From your description you need to check wireing to the starter and ground. You may need to upgrade to larger wires off the battery. I use #2 awg. Make sure you have clean solid tite connections. Hope this helps, John



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Murray P.

12-10-2007 09:08:06




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 Re: 1948 TE20 muli problems in reply to johnand cindy, 12-10-2007 08:18:50  
Thanks John..

Wiring size comming off of battery is comperable to what I have on my car & truck roughly 1/2" DIA. I think this should do the trick. All connections seem to be tight.

Where can I find a good wiring diagram of how this thing is supposed to be wired if its a 12 volt system. I think it may be wired wrong to melt the cable.

But I still don't know why it ran one minute and not the next. I was getting a ticking out of the sylenoid before I chaged it and NOTHING afterwards????? ??

On the sylenoid it has one big wire form the battery attached to it then directly across from it it has another big wire running to the starter. Also attached with the batery wire is a small wire that runs to the voltage meter..

It has one small wire running to the altinator & one small wire running to the key from the other two small studs on the sylenoid.

Thanks:
Murray

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John (UK)

12-10-2007 10:52:04




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 Re: 1948 TE20 muli problems in reply to Murray P., 12-10-2007 09:08:06  
The battery cables you have don't seem big enough if they are the same that you may find on a car or truck, fit heavier ones. Remove the ground from the back of the dash panel and refit a longer lead down to one of the bolts close to the starter. If you would like a wiring diagram so you can check it all, email me. Tell me again just what you have on your tractor, alternator or generator...John



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johnand cindy

12-10-2007 12:26:43




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 Re: 1948 TE20 muli problems in reply to John (UK), 12-10-2007 10:52:04  
Murray, I would recomend you follow John UK advice he is very knowlageable on this subject also George S.I would take apart and clean all connections follow John UK guidence it seems you have some thing loose or not conducting through steel. If you can post photo it would help. Sorry I cant be more help please let us know how your results. Regards, John



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Murray P.

12-10-2007 13:12:39




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 Re: 1948 TE20 muli problems in reply to johnand cindy, 12-10-2007 12:26:43  
How do I add Photos??



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Murray P.

12-11-2007 05:24:15




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 Re: 1948 TE20 muli problems in reply to Murray P., 12-10-2007 13:12:39  
I pulled the plugs out last night. The motor does turn over.

I also checked the on the plate above the steeering wheel, the first two letters are TE..

I took the battery and had it tested, it is good, SO I bought new battery cables #4 gage. I will install them this evening.

I did not try the jumpercable trick but I will this evening.

JERRY, you wrote yesterday: I wonder if the person who converted your electrical system changed the ground from the old positive ground on the 6v to the required negative ground on the 12V alternator system. (I"m presuming you have a 12V alternator not a Generator.) The ground lead on the battery should never get so hot that it melts.

How do I tell if the person who converted the electrical system changed the ground from the old positive ground on the 6v to the required negative ground on the 12V alternator system?

See Attaced Photos:?


Thanks;
Murray

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Jerry/MT

12-11-2007 13:25:09




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 Re: 1948 TE20 muli problems in reply to Murray P., 12-11-2007 05:24:15  
Just look at the battery ands see what terminal goes to ground. It should be the negative (-) if you have an alternator( unless you have a special alternator that is designed for a positive ground.)



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gshadel

12-11-2007 08:09:57




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 Re: 1948 TE20 muli problems in reply to Murray P., 12-11-2007 05:24:15  
Murray, which battery terminal is connected to the ground lug on the tractor frame? That's your ground. It should be the negative terminal with your 12V system. Do the jumper test Jerry recommends so you can determine if the starter, or solenoid is your problem. Make sure your ground lug on the tractor frame is clean & shiny, poor ground = poor start. Chances are, your solenoid is grounded thru the mounting bolts, make sure the mount bolts are clean & shiny and mounted in such a way to provide a good ground path back to your battery.
As for your engine noise at start-up, don't know, you need to get your engine started before you can trouble shoot that. I assume you checked & adjusted your valve tapped clearance when you re-installed your head gasket? Should have, that may explain louder than expected engine noise at statr-up if valves are really out of adjustment now.

George

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Murray P.

12-11-2007 06:18:48




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 Re: 1948 TE20 multi problems in reply to Murray P., 12-11-2007 05:24:15  
Here is the other side of the tractor photo.



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Murray P.

12-12-2007 05:33:22




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 Re: 1948 TE20 multi problems in reply to Murray P., 12-11-2007 06:18:48  
Thanks to all those who responded with input.

I installed new battery wires, insured all wires connected with the ignition system were tight, turned the key & it fired right up..

Now have a major exhaust leak.. Its either where the manifold meets the head, or where the manifold meets the exhaust pipe.

I left the manifold on the head when I removed the head to replace the head gasket, so don't know why it would start leaking all of a sudden.

I re checked the joint where the manifold meets the exhaust pipe, should there be a gasket (Donut gasket) between this joint?

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Murray P.

02-14-2008 07:18:38




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 Additional 1948 TE20 problems in reply to Murray P., 12-12-2007 05:33:22  
Ok, Where to start???

Since my last post the tractor has set, I have done nothing until two weeks ago, I brought it to a friend who works on tractors for a living and I ordered a few parts off this web site for him to put on. While delivering the first round of parts to him he shows me that the valve seats are leaking so I told him to pull it off and run the head to the machine shop and have them replaced, then last night he calls and tells me that the machine shop says the head is cracked and that they cannot repair it..

What information to I need off the tractor/motor to start my search for a good head. Does anyone know where to look for another head.

Thanks:
Murray

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