TRACTOR PARTS Allis Chalmers Case & David Brown Farmall & International Ferguson Ford & New Holland John Deere Massey Ferguson Massey Harris Minneapolis Moline Oliver & Cockshutt Kubota / Yanmar

TRACTOR MANUALS

Allis Chalmers	Case	Farmall IH	Ford 8N,9N,2N	Ford
Ferguson	John Deere	Massey Ferguson	Minn. Moline	Oliver

Discussion Forum

Yet more questions about serial numbers

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register

Author

Toora Stephen

01-07-2008 00:10:40

Report to Moderator

Hi Fergie-fans,

I have found the questions (and answers) in this forum about serial numbers to be most interesting. Finally I have my own questions...

The tractor that I bought several months ago (and until recently which I thought was a TEA20) had a serial number plate that had been painted over, so I was unable to read the number. Today I have been stripping the paint off and have been surprised with what I have found.

First let me go back a bit. The serial number plate has a crudely stamped 5-digit number in the middle of it. Until now I thought that was the serial number. It is only upon cleaning the plate up that I have found that the serial number is in smaller (less crudely stamped!) numbers at the bottom of the plate. So, that is surprise number one. Question number one then is: what the hell is that 5-digit number? I cannot read it properly due to paint, rust and wear, but my best guess is that is says something like: K1769

OK. Having revealed the actual serial number, I can see that it is probably: TED 231413. That is surprise number two. Does that mean the tractor is a TED-20, not a TEA-20? (Is there a significant difference?) What else can that serial number tell me?

Any assistance, comments or further questions would be greatly appreciated!

- TS

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Bob (Aust)

02-21-2008 04:55:08

Report to Moderator

Re: Yet more questions about serial numbers in reply to Toora Stephen, 01-07-2008 00:10:40

I'm intrigued about the additional number on a data plate..... especially on a Fergy in Australia!

Here is my data plate, original and new - where is the additional number?

third party image

Bob in Oz

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

ron silvester in oz

02-20-2008 21:26:17

Report to Moderator

Re: Yet more questions about serial numbers in reply to Toora Stephen, 01-07-2008 00:10:40

stephen, I am also stripping paint off a fergie, I took off the plate you mention it also has a crude stamp half way up (number appears to be 2501) but I think it may be an inspectors stamp.Im thinking the 250 numeral was stamped elsewhere and the #1 was stamped when the tractor was finished because the aluminium housing for steering and throttle has a #1 indentation but no #250.My serial no is TEA 77426 and at the top of the plate is MADE IN ENGLAND BY THE STANDARD MOTOR CO COVENTRY.There is also some very small print down left hand margin I cant read.I may be wrong but it seems feasible to me.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Toora Stephen

01-28-2008 18:39:13

Report to Moderator

Re: Yet more questions about serial numbers in reply to john[mo], 01-07-2008 00:10:40

Hi Bob,

Yes it is indeed the oil line from the engine to the oil pressure gauge. It connects to the engine below the starter.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Bob (Aust)

01-14-2008 18:03:34

Report to Moderator

Re: Yet more questions about serial numbers in reply to Toora Stephen, 01-07-2008 00:10:40

Toora. Just idle curiosity. It looks like the oil pressure gauge line. On the TEA20-85 it connects to the block above the starter, to the rear of the coil.
I was curious whether on the earlier TEA20s it may be connected to the oil filter, in which case it would pass the coil, engine number and distributor.

Bob in Oz

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Toora Stephen

01-14-2008 15:23:48

Report to Moderator

Re: Yet more questions about serial numbers in reply to Berryville, 01-07-2008 00:10:40

Bob (Aust) said: (quoted from post at 23:11:59 01/14/08)

What is that steel tube above the engine number in your photo?

I'm trying to remember what it is connected to. I haven't paid it much attention, even though it has been in my way a couple of times.

Unfortunately I will not be near the tractor for more than a week, but I'll check it out next time.

- TS

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Bob (Aust)

01-14-2008 04:11:59

Report to Moderator

Re: Yet more questions about serial numbers in reply to Toora Stephen, 01-07-2008 00:10:40

Toora.
What is that steel tube above the engine number in your photo?

Bob in Oz

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Bob (Aust)

01-14-2008 04:10:38

Report to Moderator

Re: Yet more questions about serial numbers in reply to Toora Stephen, 01-07-2008 00:10:40

Very interesting about that date on your 80 mm engine block. It is not embossed onto my 85 mm bore Standard engine block.

The other casting date is on the right side of your diff housing, between the gear box attachment flange and the round "port hole" inspection cover (with dip stick).
The starter motor and generator, if original, may also have manufacture dates stamped into the casing.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Toora Stephen

01-13-2008 18:29:26

Report to Moderator

Re: Yet more questions about serial numbers in reply to Crem, 01-07-2008 00:10:40

Jeff-oh said: (quoted from post at 10:49:20 01/08/08) The number stamped in the middle of the plate is not a Ferguson number...

In fact, it turns out that the same number is also printed on the tractor somewhere (I think on the transmission housing?), so someone has stamped the transmission serial number or whatever on to the serial number plate.

Odd.

- TS

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Toora Stephen

01-13-2008 15:06:03

Report to Moderator

Re: More about serial numbers in reply to Toora Stephen, 01-07-2008 00:10:40

Try again:

third party image

- TS

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Toora Stephen

01-13-2008 15:04:43

Report to Moderator

Re: More about serial numbers in reply to Toora Stephen, 01-07-2008 00:10:40

Here is a pic of the engine number:

Link

...and the date:

Link

- TS

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Toora Stephen

01-13-2008 14:42:44

Report to Moderator

More about serial numbers in reply to Jeff-oh, 01-07-2008 00:10:40

Bob (Aust) said: (quoted from post at 12:11:26 01/08/08)
I am not aware of a casting date embossed into the engine block, but that is not to say there isn't one...

Thanks Bob (Aust), I found the engine number: 179481E

There is also a date stamped below it (obscured by the coil): 11 9 51, which I assume means September 11th, 1951.

I'll post pics if I can get them up anywhere...

- TS

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Bob (Aust)

01-09-2008 02:49:53

Report to Moderator

Re: Yet more questions about serial numbers in reply to Toora Stephen, 01-07-2008 00:10:40

Easy answer - but few will agree. The lower the octane rating, the more combustible the liquid at normal atmospheric pressure.

But the mixture would be very stable, no problem unless you expose it to an open flame. Unlike urea and diesel fuel..... . :lol:

The UK has restrictive laws regarding "home brew" of TVO, but I suspect that is more to do with the Government losing a few pence in fuel excise than any other factor.

I've never heard of kero called "28 second oil", but we Aussies have our own English vernacular! Actually, heating oil is not common in houses in Australia, indeed rare if at all. Natural gas or LPG is far more common.

Except around our National Capital, Canberra where excess hot air is piped direct from Parliament House! That would probably work well around Washington as well!!! :lol: :lol:

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Toora Stephen

01-08-2008 20:19:41

Report to Moderator

Re: Yet more questions about serial numbers in reply to Toora Stephen, 01-07-2008 00:10:40

...and apparently "kerosene" is also called "28 second oil".

Does anyone know if a 50-50 mix of kerosene and petrol is more or less likely to burst into flame than straight petrol?

- TS

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Bob (Aust)

01-08-2008 20:07:18

Report to Moderator

Re: Yet more questions about serial numbers in reply to Toora Stephen, 01-07-2008 00:10:40

The Friends of Ferguson Heritage - Recipe for TVO.

"Heating Oil" was never available in Australia, only power kerosene.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Bob (Aust)

01-08-2008 19:58:09

Report to Moderator

Re: Yet more questions about serial numbers in reply to Toora Stephen, 01-07-2008 00:10:40

Dave

Wikipedia!!

"Tractor vaporising oil (or TVO) is a fuel for internal combustion engines, produced from paraffin (kerosene). In the United Kingdom and Australia, after the Second World War, it was commonly used for tractors until diesel engines became commonplace. In Australian English it was known as power kerosene."

"The .... octane rating of TVO was somewhere between 55 and 70."

Therefore my suggestion of two thirds Jet A1 and one third unleaded petrol would probably be about correct.

Question is, if you use Jet A1 fuel, do you need to file a flight plan, or simply blast off VFR??? :lol:

Bob

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Bob (Aust)

01-08-2008 19:45:35

Report to Moderator

Re: Yet more questions about serial numbers in reply to Toora Stephen, 01-07-2008 00:10:40

G'Day Dave.
Back in Oz for a bit? Hope your Christmas went well. The TED20 was better known in Australia as the Kero Tractor and had a two compartment fuel tank with two scew fuel caps on top. Small rear tank is for petrol, front tank for kero.

I vaguely recall the TED20 had a heat shield above the carby and came out over the exhaust manifold. I'll look it up in my books for you.

I think the TED20 would run on Jet A1 but would suggest 25% petrol and a touch of oil in the mix. I used to run the airport ground handling John Deere diesel on Jet A1 (with a little oil added) and it ran fine.

Having said that, I found this warning on the internet:

Diesel and Jet fuel (along with kerosene) have, indeed, terrible octane numbers; typically about 15-25 "octane". They tend to ignite easily from high compression. Their use in a gasoline engine will quickly destroy the engine.

General rules:
Heavy fuels (diesel, Jet A1): Low volatility, low knock resistance, high energy per volume;

Light fuels (petrol): High volatility, high knock resistance, low energy per volume.

Your engine should develop greater power from suitable low octane fuel.

Bob in Oz!

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Dave Tointon Australia

01-08-2008 17:17:50

Report to Moderator

Re: Yet more questions about serial numbers in reply to Toora Stephen, 01-07-2008 00:10:40

G'Day Bob, I suspect that my fergi is a TED as it has a 2 compartment fuel tank. ID plate is unreadable.Would Jet A1 fuel work and is it worth the trouble I just use unleaded petrol at the moment and assume that because of the low compression ratio it won't do any harm. Regards Dave

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Bob (Aust)

01-07-2008 17:11:26

Report to Moderator

Re: Yet more questions about serial numbers in reply to Toora Stephen, 01-07-2008 00:10:40

You can buy a new reproduction data plate in the UK for around $10.

I am not aware of a casting date embossed into the engine block, but that is not to say there isn't one. The only date I am aware of is embossed on the right side of the diff, between gear box flange and round "porthole" plate.
The Lucas M35 starter motor should also have a month and year stamped into the case.

The radiator was made by the Coventry Radiator Works and all their radiators had serial numbers. Good radiator, best you can get according to our old local radiator over haul expert, so always try to clean and overhaul, rather than buying an after market radiator.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Toora Stephen

01-07-2008 16:48:46

Report to Moderator

Re: Yet more questions about serial numbers in reply to Toora Stephen, 01-07-2008 00:10:40

Thanks Bob (Aust),

I will check that location for the engine serial number.

I was a bit surprised to find the date number, because I hadn't heard anyone talk about it before. I'll take a photo this weekend.

My tractor data plate does indeed look like that, but in MUCH worse condition, and with some very old paint over the top of it and with a number roughly stamped in the middle of it!

- TS

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Bob (Aust)

01-07-2008 16:42:28

Report to Moderator

Re: Yet more questions about serial numbers in reply to Toora Stephen, 01-07-2008 00:10:40

Your Ferguson TE series tractor data plate should look like this:

third party image

Don't know about any other numbers on the data plate, other than the serial number.

Where on the engine did you find that "date" like number? The engine number is stamped into the block near the coil mounting point:

third party image

All TE series tractors, 6 or 12 volt, were positive (+) earth, although they are happy to run either positive or negative earth, provided the generator is correctly polarised and coil leads correctly connected.

The Standard engine is OK to run on unleaded fuel, although I also add lead replacement upper cylinder lubricant.
With it's very low compression ratio, I suspect the approx 90 octane rating of unleaded fuel may be too high and it would perform far better on the correct low octane fuel.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Toora Stephen

01-07-2008 16:24:53

Report to Moderator

Re: Yet more questions about serial numbers in reply to Toora Stephen, 01-07-2008 00:10:40

Thanks Jeff-oh,

That link you posted seems to be out of date. This one is more direct:

Link

I'll think about using a TVO recipe, but at the moment I have more pressing issues!

Back to serial numbers, here are some more numbers I found on the tractor:

Engine block: 11 9 51 (Presumably a date!)

Side steering column: 8537

Transmission block under seat: 15101

Radiator: G Z 2506
518

- TS

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Toora Stephen

01-07-2008 14:03:08

Report to Moderator

Re: Yet more questions about serial numbers in reply to Toora Stephen, 01-07-2008 00:10:40

Thanks Bob (Aust),

Does that mean the tractor will run better on vapourising oil, or just that it will happily run on it? I have been using unleaded petrol, and lately adding some lead to it. I will read about vapourising oil

Is the 12 volt system positive or negative ground? (I still haven't got it charging the battery yet - the next step is to replace all the wiring.)

Does anyone have any idea what the other number stamped on the plate is?!

- TS

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Jeff-oh

01-07-2008 15:49:20

Report to Moderator

Re: Yet more questions about serial numbers in reply to Toora Stephen, 01-07-2008 14:03:08

The number stamped in the middle of the plate is not a Ferguson number. It could be the license plate number assigned to that tractor years ago, or anything else the owner wanted to ID this tractor with. We would not be able to help with that question.

The tractor will run fine on petrol. you have the option of mixing and using a potentially less expensive TVO (kerosine) fuel. If in the UK you need a license to mix TVO. See the link below for mixtures, and also info about license requirements for the UK if aplicable.

Jeff

Ferg. Heritage TVO recipes

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Bob (Aust)

01-07-2008 03:24:16

Report to Moderator

Re: Yet more questions about serial numbers in reply to Toora Stephen, 01-07-2008 00:10:40

Toora.
A Ferguson TED20 is a standard tractor, operating on Vaporising Oil. They were produced from 1949 to 1956 and designed to run on cheaper fuel, particularly as gasoline may have been rationed in the UK and very expensive in the early years of their production.

Not rare, but a nice find!

Your tractor was built in late 1951 and should be 12 volt electrics.

The TED20 has a lower compression ratio (4.5:1??), lower power output (22.9 HP??) than a TEA20 (28.2 HP).
It should have a two compartment fuel tank, small tank compartment for gasoline (for starting), larger tank compartment for Vaporising Oil.

John (UK) would definitely be the expert on TED20 tractor engines and Vaporising Oil fuel.

I think Vaporising Oil is what we used to call Power Kerosene in Australia and if that is the case, some years ago Shell Petroleum told me the mix is 2/3 lighting kerosene; 1/3 standard gasoline.
Do a Google search on "Vaporising Oil" and "Octane Rating" - heaps of information available and Vaporising Oil formula and to me it was very interesting when I read up on the subject a few years ago.

Bob in Oz.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

[Options] [Printer Friendly] [Posting Help] [Return to Forum] [Log in to Reply]

TRACTOR PARTS	TRACTOR MANUALS

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home | Forums

Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.
All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy