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Harry Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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Tales of a TEA 20 (long)

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Opa A

01-27-2008 18:32:24




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Since its a full blizzard outside, I thought maybe I'd share my first experiences with a Ferguson tractor. I suppose this is all very familiar to many of you, to me its much of the pleasure of working on these old tractors, Having just finished a complete restoration on a 1945 Farmall A, and having a Farmal M to start on, I figure this Ferguson is a nice change.

I aquired this tractor about a year ago as payment for work (about $400.00 worth) done on a Ford 8N. Previous owner said it had started popping back throught the air cleaner and lost alot of power, so he just parked it and bought the 8N. I have no idea how long it sat, hood and grill are fair, rear fenders are beat fairly bad but not beyond repair. All four tires are almost new, worth the price of the whole tractor. Serial #TEA266272, according to the list on this site is a 20-85, 1952.

January 1st I decided to try to bring her back to life. I checked all the fluid levels, engine oil thick and black but up to level on the dipstick, transmission low and showing signs of water in oil, radiator antifreeze full with a tiny film of oil on top. The hand crank is there so I tried and she turned over. Figured out it has a 12 volt positive ground system, so I installed a battrey and after finding out the starter switch is closed through the gear shift linkage she also cranked over on the starter and oil pressure started to show on the guage. Pulled the coil wire off the distributor, (oops, didn't know about the threaded connections on the plug wires), held the coil wire close to ground and had spark but very weak.

As she showed some promise I pushed her into the shop and thought I'd give serious attempt at making her run. First job was remove the hood and fuel tank, drain tank and clean sediment bowl. Removed distributor cap to clean and adjust points. Removed spark plugs for visual inspection and quick cleanup on wire wheel, checked gap and set to .025". Cleaned and repaired spark plug wire connections at distributor and coil. Spark was way stronger with clean points, so I set the fuel tank back on and reconnected the fuel line to the carburator. When I opened the fuel valve on the sediment bowl gas poured out of the carburator as fast as it could get there, guess I could have expected that.

I removed, disassembled and cleaned the carburator. Found the needle valve stuck open and the bowl gasket shrunk from sitting too long. Made a new bowl gasket and reinstalled the carb. Opened the fuel valve again and seemed to have cured the leaks (smiles).

Left the air intake pipe off the carb and giving some choke I tried to get her to fire, actually I did get a few pops but could also here puffing back out through the carburator and would not fire-up. Removed the sparkplugs again and checked compression, with throttle wide open results = #1-28, #2-45, #3-70, #4-100 lbs. Removed the valve cover and cranking her over by hand I could all valves were moving although lash on all valves was very loose, I'd guess at least .050". Decided to also do a cylinder leakage test while the cover was off, removed the manifolds to better access where leakage was, results = #1-85% intake valve, #2-80% intake and exhaust valves, #3-65% intake valve, #4-42% intake valve.

After looking into the ports I decided to remove the head and at least clean the carbon from the valves to try to get a better seal. I disassembled and cleaned the head and gave a quick lap on the valves and seats while it was apart. Valves are not great but the guides are surprisingly tight and I did not want to spend a bunch of money before finding out what the overall running condition of the tractor is.

The bad news came when I removed the head gasket (I don't know why I didn't look as soon as I pulled the head). The block is cracked where the head stud threads in between the #1 and #2 cylinders, cracked from the threaded hole toward the center of the block, the deck is actually pulled highter then the liner flange near the crack but the head gasket (copper) showed no signs of leakage from the water jacket or combustion chamber. With the head off I also pulled the cam followers out to check the condition of the cam lobes whick all looked good. Another surprise, a little tappered head screw was in one of the cam followers, after some searching I found it to be the lock screw holding the rocker arm shaft in the rear shaft tower. Cleaned the rocker arms and shaft and checked for wear, tips a little worn where they contact the valve stems but shaft in great shape. A little loctite on that screw and I don't think we'll have that problem again.

Well keeping with not wanting to spend much yet, I thought whats the harm in reinstalling the head with the old gasket and at least try to get her to run. The cylinder walls look good with no ridge to speak of. I degreased the old gasket, deck and head surface and installed using copper coat on the gasket. Set the valve lash to .010 intake and .012 exhaust thanks to the info on this forum. As the manifold gaskets disintegrated when I removed the manifolds I reinstalled them using hi-temp silicone.

Set the fuel tank back on without the valve cover on so I could make sure the top end is oiling, and recheck the lash hot, if it would run! Gave her the fuel and a little choke and she fired right up but would not keep running without alot of choke, (figured I had the carb settings not even close) but at least she ran. I did manage to get the mixture screws close enough to have her keep running without and choke, but she sounded terrible. Popping back through the carb and would not rev above I'd say about 700 RPM.

I reinstalled the pipe from the air cleaner to the carb, to keep from getting gas on the warm exhaust pipe, and checked the oil cup on the air cleaner to find it full of water and ice, no oil. Removed the whole air cleaner and disassembled to clean, reinstalled with clean oil in the cup. Restarted her, she ran the same and I could really feel air blowing out of the dash vent (scratching head, what the !?!). Plugged exhaust maybe? removed exhaust pipe at the manifold, no change.

Back to this forum, I found there is supposed to be a timing hole below the starter, I still cannot find it. So using a piston stop through the #1 spark plug hole, I found TDC and made a timing pointer from a bolt on the front cover to a mark I put on the front pulley. Checked spark timing and found it way advanced but I could not get the distributor loose to adjust the timing, with the valve cover still off it was not hard to check the valve timing. Found some results that I think may be my problem, intakes opening at 30 degrees BTDC and closed at 20 degrees BBDC, exhaust opening at 50 degrees BBDC and closed at 45 degrees BTDC, seems valve timing is also way advanced?

Pulled the front end off and removed the front cover to find one very loose timing chain, advanced 3 teeth from the marks. Just for kicks I reset the chain back to the marks and tried to start her without the front cover, I only let her run for a few seconds (kinda ackward trying to control the choke, starter and throttle with no governor linkage) but for those few seconds she sounded good.

Now I've had to spend some money, $26.33 for a new chain through the local Massey dealer. Two days to get it here, I have it now and as I was getting ready to put the front end back together I found a button from one of the governor weights had come off and was stuck between the oil seal and flange of the timing cover. I got the button back in the weight and reset it with a center punch but I really should order a new weight assembly. If the block wasn't cracked it wouldn't even be a question but as it is I can't justify putting any more into it than absolutely necessary. At least if I can get the engine to run decent I can find out if the rest of the tractor is in working order.

Anyway, thats where she stands right now. Hope some of you may have enjoyed the read.

G Top.

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Bob (Aust)

02-01-2008 02:04:45




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 Re: Tales of a TEA 20 (long) in reply to Opa A, 01-27-2008 18:32:24  
Bendee. I suspect you are referring to the Continental engine TE20 or TO20. No such marks on the front of the TEA20's Standard engine.

Opa. If you can't find that small timing home, take out the starter and you will find a "V" cut into the block, inside the starter motor mounting hole, which aligns with "O" on the fly wheel.
Look carefully at the following photo and you should see it:

third party image

Bob in Oz

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Opa A

02-04-2008 17:15:27




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 Re: Tales of a TEA 20 (long) in reply to Bob (Aust), 02-01-2008 02:04:45  
Thanks Bob, don't know how I was so blind, guess it really is time for glasses. Actually after seeing the picture I looked again and still didn't see it until I used a wire brush, then a little depression, and low and behold the hole was found, thanks again! I'm going to keep the pointer on the front as it will make it easy to use a timing light.



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Bendee

01-30-2008 04:56:14




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 Re: Tales of a TEA 20 (long) in reply to Opa A, 01-27-2008 18:32:24  
Tractors of early manufacture have a vee mark on the inner rim of the fan belt drive pulley and corresponding cast markings on the timing cover.
Later manufacture have the hole, but nothing to indicate where "later" begins.



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Bob (Aust)

01-29-2008 22:04:52




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 Re: Tales of a TEA 20 (long) in reply to Opa A, 01-27-2008 18:32:24  
Jerry. Yes the Triumph TR2 - TR4 block is similar, but that is where it ends. Not interchangeable. In my youth I had my TR3A block bored and Fergy sleeves fitted - increased capacity from 1,990 cc to 2,100 cc's!

The Triumph has a timing chain tensioner, the Fergy does not but has a governor in the timing cover.

The Fergy block is heavier and whilst I haven't looked at a Triumph or Vanguard car engine for some years, I seem to recall the engine mounts and gear box bell housings are different.

Opa is obviously fairly smart with tools and knows what he is doing. Whilst I don't know what TEA20's sell for in his part of the woods, if the crankshaft and cam shaft are OK, block repair were US$400, the complete engine overhaul kit around US$400 and by the time he buys a few odds and ends, maybe a water pump, valves etc, he could have a fully reconditioned engine for maybe US$1,000 to US$1,200. And that is cheap!

Opa. You need to get your priorities right. Mum is boss in the kitchen. You're boss in the workshop! :lol: :lol:
Bob in Oz

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Opa A

02-04-2008 17:28:58




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 Re: Tales of a TEA 20 (long) in reply to Bob (Aust), 01-29-2008 22:04:52  
Bob, one must remember that it can get bitterly cold here and Mum is often needed for the before mentioned cuddle time, and she is a good cook, lol:

Actually she is getting excited at the prospect of having a smaller tractor around for her garden etc. I imagine once I get back to it and get this little Fergy running she will lay claim to it, which will give me more points toward buying more toys for myself (smiles).

Still want to see how the rest of the tractor operates once the engine is running good enough to tell. Haven't seen any Fergusons around here, piles of Fordsons.

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Bob (Aust)

01-29-2008 14:24:41




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 Re: Tales of a TEA 20 (long) in reply to Opa A, 01-27-2008 18:32:24  
Opa. Yes there is a good supply of used parts here in Australia, including engine blocks. I know of a good block available within 200 miles of my home which would probably be obtained for a carton of beer, the normal Aussie currency.

I thought there were many TEA20's in Canada. Would that be a possibility?

Cracked blocks in the Standard engine seems unusual, unlike the Continental. At least cracked blocks are unusual in Australia - I wonder if it may be a result of coolant freezing in colder climates?
That timing hole should be there under the starter motor, if the tractor is 12 volts, 85 mm bore. Not sure on the 80 mm, 6 volt engine.

If you can get the block repaired or get another block, the Standard engine is very cheap and easy to overhaul - full engine overhaul kit, pistons, sleeves, bearings and gaskets all for less than $400. New crankshafts, manifolds etc are also readily available, but come at a price.
Check that governor carefully - the damage is very expensive if a governor weight comes off.

Bob in Oz

P.S. "Opa" - German origin?

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Opa A

01-29-2008 19:12:23




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 Re: Tales of a TEA 20 (long) in reply to Bob (Aust), 01-29-2008 14:24:41  
Bob: Colder climates? Only -35 degrees C here right now, wind chill brings it down to about -45. Good time to get the wife into some cuddle time on the couch.

I'd like nothing better than to find a good block and fix this tractor properly. If the rest of the tractor seems in good working order I will start hunting for a replacement block.

I wish I would have taken a picture of the crack in the block before reinstalling the head, I've seen and even repaired quite a few cracks in blocks due to freezing (usually cracked along the bottom of the water water jacket toward the outside of the block, eg: behind the carb on this standard engine). This crack starts right at the edge of the second bolt back from the front on the cam side and extends to the edge of the casting between the cylinder sleeves, and then the cast has pulled up around the stud hole. Not sure why.

Looked again and have not discovered the timing hole. Yea, I have images of what one of the governor buttons would do if it went through the timing chain & sprockets. Weights are tight on the pins but the buttons leave something to be desired.

G Top

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Jeff-oh

01-28-2008 06:18:16




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 Re: Tales of a TEA 20 (long) in reply to Opa A, 01-27-2008 18:32:24  
I realy enjoied your narative. Keep us up to date.



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Opa A

01-29-2008 12:53:46




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 Re: Tales of a TEA 20 (long) in reply to Jeff-oh, 01-28-2008 06:18:16  
Thanks Jeff, will do.

G Top.



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Jerry/MT

01-27-2008 21:09:51




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 Re: Tales of a TEA 20 (long) in reply to Opa A, 01-27-2008 18:32:24  
It"s alsways enjoyable to see someone systematically analyze an old machine like you have. You"ll have that tractor running well in no time at all! Find a Factory TEA shop manual and and a parts manual you"ll be way ahead of the game.
Good Luck!

Jerry



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Opa A

01-29-2008 12:52:06




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 Re: Tales of a TEA 20 (long) in reply to Jerry/MT, 01-27-2008 21:09:51  
Thanks Jerry, just the cracks in the block have me worried as to how much to spend on this tractor, wife thinks maybe I should just part it out on ebay, hate to do that.

Sounds like Bob (Aust) has a better supply of blocks and hard parts in his part of the world than I do. If I could find a good block in north america I think I'd buy it and do her up right. For now I'm just going to get her running decent and see how the rest of the tractor works. So far I've done all right without a manual but it sure would save some time and hair!

G Top

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Jerry/MT

01-29-2008 20:41:59




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 Re: Tales of a TEA 20 (long) in reply to Opa A, 01-29-2008 12:52:06  
Repair of the block via furnace brazing is competitive with a used replacement block and it has the added advantage of stress relieving the block which is then align bored to bring it into compliance with the block"s required specs. Your looking at $400-$500 either way unless you find a bargain on ebay, etc. I know it"s a tough call. Since you have to dismantle everything you get into the quandry of should I replace this and that and before you know it you"re into a $2000 refurbishment. I think the Standard block is the same that the old Triumph sports cars used. You might ask Bob from Oz. That might give you another source for a block.

Good Luck with whatever you decide to do and keep us posted on your progress.

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Don Hooks*

01-27-2008 19:53:56




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 Re: Tales of a TEA 20 (long) in reply to Opa A, 01-27-2008 18:32:24  
I'm sure you have read posts here about pinning the Continental engines - does the TEA have a Continental or a Standard and would it work for whatever you have? After this much effort it would be nice to find a way to salvage the engine in what sounds like a basically sound although neglected machine. By the way, how does one check the leakdown? I've heard of it but never seen it done.



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Opa A

01-29-2008 19:58:04




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 Re: Tales of a TEA 20 (long) in reply to Don Hooks*, 01-27-2008 19:53:56  
Leakage on cylinders is basically checked by putting air into the cylinder with the piston at "top dead center" compression stroke with both valves closed.

Air is admitted into the cylinder from shop air supply, through the spark plug hole. One can then determine where the leakage is coming from by listening for the air escaping through the valves (listen in either through either the carb or muffler) or the rings (listen through the oil fill hole in the crankcase or valve cover etc.

A leakdown tester will show the percentage of leakage through a fixed orfice in the air supply to the cylinder. More leakage = worse cylinder seal.

G Top

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Don Hooks*

02-01-2008 10:47:56




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 Re: Tales of a TEA 20 (long) in reply to Opa A, 01-29-2008 19:58:04  
Thanks!
Would most auto parts stores sell the gauge/orifice device or is it harder to come by? I have a critical orifice used for industrial stack testing around here someplace - I might try to make one if they are too expensive.



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Opa A

02-04-2008 18:10:12




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 Re: Tales of a TEA 20 (long) in reply to Don Hooks*, 02-01-2008 10:47:56  
I have seen one in an older NAPA tool catalogue, not sure if still available. I bought mine through MAC tools at least 15 years ago, not sure what I paid. Most any place that deals in performance or hardcore race parts will be able to get you one. We use to check leakage on our race engine on a weekly basis.

If your not worried about testing actual leakage % rates and just want to find where compression is going, I've just used the hose off my compression tester. Remove the schrader valve (tire stem valve) from the end of the hose, remove the hose from the guage and connect shop air with an adjustable regulator. Start at low pressure and slowly bring it up until you can hear the leak. Valves will show right away, rings can be a little more tricky (see below) I usually use at least 80 PSI, different testers may require different input pressure.

A word of caution. If the piston is not right at TDC the pressure in the cylinder can push the piston down and the fan etc will rotate quite quickly at the piston goes to the bottom of stroke. You can also get false readings due to the rings not being seated on the botom of the ring grooves (the air sneaks around the back side of the rings and past the bottom land), as you bring the pressure higher many times the rings will suddenly move tight against the bottom land and suddenly increase the pressure. Best way to avoid it is to make sure the piston has just reached TDC and not crested over as when it starts back down friction of the rings on the cylinder wall will lift the rings that little bit.

Sorry, long winded as always.

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Jeff-oh

01-28-2008 06:06:59




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 Re: Tales of a TEA 20 (long) in reply to Don Hooks*, 01-27-2008 19:53:56  
The "A" designation in TEA means it has a Standard Motor Petrol engine.



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Bendee

01-29-2008 03:29:26




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 Re: Tales of a TEA 20 (long) in reply to Jeff-oh, 01-28-2008 06:06:59  
The engine is also in the TE-C20.



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steveormary

01-29-2008 23:21:59




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 Re: Tales of a TEA 20 (long) in reply to Bendee, 01-29-2008 03:29:26  
We run a TE20 for about 12-14 years and a TO30 for about 50 years and never cracked the block in either one. They were used for all our farm work for awhile. We run them steady,mabe 2/3 throttle depending on load. Both tractors were bought new.

steveormary



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