Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo Auction Link (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Number 1 cylinder won't fire
:

please help!

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
Bill Boquist

06-11-2000 17:36:53




Report to Moderator

The cylinder closest to the radiator in my 860 won't fire. I have fresh plugs, points, condenser, rotor, and cap in the tractor. I have 140 lbs. of pressure in the cylinder that won't fire and 130 - 145 in the ones that do. The plug produces a nice hot spark when removed from the block and grounded to it while the engine is turned over. If I put my thumb over the plug hole and engage the starter, I feel a little suction as the piston travels down, but not much, which to me indicates that the intake valve is opening properly.

As far as I can tell, I have the three ingredients in combustion (spark, compression, and a properly atomized mixture), but it still won't fire. My manual says that if the above elements are OK, check the valve lash. I can't find any other reference to valve lash in it, so I don't even know what I am looking for.

Any ideas would be GREATLY appreciated, because I need all the horsepower I can get to turn my tiller. I don't want to take the head off the engine if I can avoid it.

[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
Dave in Mo

06-14-2000 09:23:19




Report to Moderator
 Re: Number 1 cylinder won't fire - please help! in reply to Bill Boquist, 06-11-2000 17:36:53  
Bill, it could be an ignition problem too. Did you replace all the spark plug wires too? Just because you get a nice spark on the plug outside the engine doesn't mean you're getting a good one inside the cylinder where the air is 6 times or better as dense during compression. On aircraft magnetos, we checked the spark at gaps 10 times size in free air to compensate for compression. Air is a great electrical insulator.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Bill Boquist

06-19-2000 17:34:19




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Number 1 cylinder won't fire - please help! in reply to Dave in Mo, 06-14-2000 09:23:19  
Thanks to all for the suggestions. I have tried the approach of swapping wires and plugs around, and the problem is still isolated on the same cylinder. I guess the inductive timing light and the removal of the valve cover to check for broken or bent valve hardware are my next moves. I'll let you know what happens, but it may take a while, since I have to go out of town for two weeks.

Again, thanks.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
ErnieD

06-13-2000 16:25:43




Report to Moderator
 Re: Number 1 cylinder won't fire - please help! in reply to Bill Boquist, 06-11-2000 17:36:53  
A long shot, look for a bent exhaust push rod. With your thumb over the spark plug hole, do you have two compression strokes in succession? In starting from a cold start does the exhaust manifold for #1 one heat up at same rate as #4?
Another long shot, lost cam lobe, again on exhaust.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
raytasch

06-13-2000 16:24:34




Report to Moderator
 Re: Number 1 cylinder won't fire - please help! in reply to Bill Boquist, 06-11-2000 17:36:53  
Bill, I just had a similar problem that stumped me for a while. Broken valve spring on the intake. Compression was good at cranking speed. Every once in a while the engine would miss a few times and then "pick up". My problem was on an 8N but the symptom could be similar. fwiw, ray



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Joel

06-13-2000 13:45:38




Report to Moderator
 Re: Number 1 cylinder won't fire - please help! in reply to Bill Boquist, 06-11-2000 17:36:53  
You indicated that you don't feel much suction on the intake stroke, yet you have good compression. This suggests that your intake valve could be carboned-up. One trick that I have heard about, but haven't tried, is to spray some water into the carb (air cleaner removed) with the engine revved. This supposedly removes carbon. There used to be some sprays sold for this purpose. Check auto parts places. Should check the valve clearance (lash) too. What color is the plug after normal running (white=lean, tan = good, black = too rich, black&oily = aspirating oil).

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Bern

06-11-2000 18:38:24




Report to Moderator
 Re: Number 1 cylinder won't fire - please help! in reply to Bill Boquist, 06-11-2000 17:36:53  
Since you have the necessary ingredients, what makes you think this particular cylinder is not firing? Possibly is the engine just misfiring on occassion due to a fuel mixture being too lean, or stumbling because of a fuel mixture too rich?

I would say that if in fact you have 140# of compression in that cylinder, and that in fact you have a good hot spark, it should then be firing. I would be interested in knowing why you think it is that #1 doesn't work and the other 3 do. How have you determined this?

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Terry S

06-22-2000 15:27:11




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Number 1 cylinder won't fire - please help! in reply to Bern, 06-11-2000 18:38:24  
I have had a similar problem, though not on a Ford, where the top bushing on the distributer was worn.when it came around to open the points under speed,the shaft would wobble instead of opening the points.Only happened on one cylinder, intermittently.Check your distributer shaft for excessive free play . Hope this helps.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Bill Boquist

06-12-2000 20:05:16




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Number 1 cylinder won't fire - please help! in reply to Bern, 06-11-2000 18:38:24  
Bern -

Thanks for the quick reply. The reason I think it is not firing is because it makes no difference in the sound of the engine or the RPM if I use an insulated pliers to pull the wire off the plug while the tractor is running, then replace it. If I pull the wire off any other plug, the drop in RPM and increment in roughness is immediately apparent. Hope this helps.

On a related note, in my manual, the desired compression is listed as 130 psi on each cylinder, and there is a note that readings greater than 10 psi over that are evidence of carbon buildup. As I noted (or should have) in my first post, I have 145 on one of the other cylinders, and 130 on the remaining two. Is there any product (fuel additive, intake spray, or other) you know of that can be used to dislodge the carbon (assuming that is the problem) without taking the thing apart? The tractor is generally in excellent working order, with the exception of this problem.

Thanks to all for your help.

Bill

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Bern

06-12-2000 23:04:17




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Number 1 cylinder won't fire - please help! in reply to Bill Boquist, 06-12-2000 20:05:16  
Bill, I honestly don't know what to tell you then on that #1 cylinder. Sounds like you know what you're doing with your testing there. It doesn't make any sense if you have good compression and a good spark. About the only other thing left that I can think of is a carburetor distribution problem, but that's a real long shot.

Here's an idea. Do you have an inductive timing light, you know, one of those types that you clamp over the plug wire? If so, take it out there and clamp it onto the plug wires one at a time and see if you can get your light to flash consistently with each cylinder. If #1 gives trouble with this test, maybe you can swap around such things as plugs and/or wires to see if the problem goes to a different hole. Maybe you could also consider re-doing your compression test to verify your last readings. Possibly you have an occassional sticking valve that was behaving during your last compression test.

I wouldn't be too worried about the differences in compression readings, that really is not that much difference. The best way to get rid of carbon buildup is to take that tractor and work the snot out of it for about half an hour. I do this on a dyno if a customer asks me to do it. Looks really cool in the dark. Freaked me out the first time I saw all that fire works coming out the stack though!

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Roger in SeMO

06-11-2000 18:26:36




Report to Moderator
 Re: Number 1 cylinder won't fire - please help! in reply to Bill Boquist, 06-11-2000 17:36:53  
Pull the valve cover, 2 acorn nuts, and check to see if the intake valve is opening properly.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
harley

06-19-2000 15:14:18




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Number 1 cylinder won't fire - please help! in reply to Roger in SeMO, 06-11-2000 18:26:36  
I saw that symptom once where the ceramic insulator over the spark plug center electrode was broken up inside the shell. Looked normal in your hand but would slide down over gap when inverted!
Plug would fire but not ignite gas mixture!



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy