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12 volt conv. problems

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kevin

07-16-2000 19:59:55




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I have just rewired my ford 601 tractor to be 12 volt per some instructions i have found on various web sites and by cross referencing the wiring on my ford 800 tractor that works fine. The 601 will crank and run but i think there is a problem with overcharging. The amp gage reading varies with the speed of the engine (anywhere from 2 to 60) and when i put a meter on the battery to see if i get 14+ volts it too varies from 14 to 18. Any clues as to what i did wrong? The ford 800 reads a constant 14.6+/- volts at battery. Any help is appreciated!

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Drew / Millington, MI

07-20-2000 14:55:55




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 Re: 12 volt conv. problems in reply to kevin, 07-16-2000 19:59:55  
Well, I now know more about the 10SI Delco alternator (and related alternators) than I ever wanted to know. (1) I would connect pin #2 to the battery + terminal directly, or at least to the switched side of the IGN switch (not after a diode or lamp). This line needs to read battery voltage as it is the sense line. (2) I'm not sure why a Ford tractor would need a diode in the pin #1 to IGN circuit while a Farmall only uses a lamp. But pin #1 of the 10SI will back-feed a voltage/current to the points and coil when the ignition switch is turned off. This is because the alternator is self-powered (not battery powered - it only uses battery power to bootstrap itself). The external diode "steers" the current from pin #1 to the IGN switch and away from the points/coil. You could use a lamp in addition to the diode in the circuit of a Ford (which would be a nice feature). (3) It is incorrect to think of the alternator as having a separate "regulator". If there is voltage/current output from the 10SI (as Kevin reported), then there is an extremely high probability that the alternator is working. The likelihood (very high) is that if the electronics fail, the alternator will have no current output, since the rotor/field-coil is both driven and powered internally. The most probable failure mode of the rotor coil drive transistor is "open". If this occurred, you would read battery voltage at the alternator's BATT terminal. (4) 18V @ about 60 amps is the approximate maximum output of the 10SI. However, I have trouble imagining a situation where a sustained 18V @ 60 amps is being delivered to a 12 volt battery/electrical system and not seeing smoke or flames!...which brings us to: (5) Assuming Kevin's wiring is basically correct, the most likely problem is a high-impedance battery ("open") There can be enough power for a summertime start, but excessive internal resistance in the charging path would stop the battery from charging and the low system voltage would cause the alternator to go to its maximum current/voltage. The second most likely problem would be the pin #2 circuit. If this line were "open" the exact symptoms described would be seen. (6) Of course, there is always something else possible, so Kevin, how did you fix it?

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mike

07-17-2000 18:26:04




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 Re: 12 volt conv. problems in reply to kevin, 07-16-2000 19:59:55  
If the battery is ok (take to a parts store or mechanic to load test it), your voltmeter reading should only be 14.5-15volts maximum. If it really is 18volts the alternator is bad. Check all your wiring very carefully!



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Drew / Millington, MI

07-17-2000 03:04:16




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 Re: 12 volt conv. problems in reply to kevin, 07-16-2000 19:59:55  
Your alternator is working (Assuming you did the 3-wire Delco alternator thing). 14v to 18v is possible for a Delco alteranator. With the current varying from 2A to 60A, those voltage numbers are correct. Delco runs a "hot" alternator for a fast charge. (1) What is the no-load battery voltage after being charged externally for a couple of hours? If it is say... 10 volts, then you need a new battery. If your battery charger has an ammeter, does the battery require a high continuous current? If it does, then again, you need a new battery. (2) You may also have the IGN and Sense wires reversed. But since I don't know exactly how you wired the tractor, I can't be sure that this would cause the symtoms that you describe. (3) If your battery is good and the wiring to the alternator is good, then you have a short in the system. Although, if you are drawing 60 amps from the atlernator, I would think that you should see or smell smoke! (Which reminds me, did you disconnect and remove the 6v voltage regulator?)

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kevin

07-17-2000 06:27:09




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 Re: Re: 12 volt conv. problems in reply to Drew / Millington, MI, 07-17-2000 03:04:16  

I am pretty sure my battery is good. my meter showed it at 12 volts before cranking but i will test it later to be sure. You also noted that the ignition and sense wires may be reversed. I'm not sure what you are referring to when you say "sense". When we bought this tractor it was halfway converted meaning that it had a delco alt. but it was not wired correctly. We found this out when we hooked up the headlights and went for a night drive, turned off the engine and got stranded when all the juice left the battery, in other words it was not putting a charge to the battery. I do not have a 6 volt regulator on the tractor. I will send a message later on the battery results and i will also map out the way it is wired now to better answer any solutions you may have for me. Thanks Drew!

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Drew / Millington, MI

07-17-2000 17:02:14




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 Re: Re: Re: 12 volt conv. problems in reply to kevin, 07-17-2000 06:27:09  
Kevin, I'm thinking that the alternator is a 3-wire job, with a built-in voltage regulator. One wire connects to ignition voltage (IGN is switched) via a light bulb or resistor - this is power in for the regulator (terminal #1 on alternator). One wire (the heavy gauge one) connects to the battery via the ammeter (the BATT terminal). One wire connects to the battery +, this is the sense wire (#2 terminal). It compensates for the voltage drop in the charging circuit by raising the voltage output of the alternator via the voltage regulator. See the article on the 12volt Farmall conversion on this months YT start page. You basically want to do the same thing.
- Drew

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kevin

07-17-2000 18:27:58




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 12 volt conv. problems in reply to Drew / Millington, MI, 07-17-2000 17:02:14  

I reviewed the article on the 12 volt conversion and i did pretty much the same thing. The only thing different would be that I used a one amp 50 volt diode on the number one wire from the alternator per an example found on another web site. The diode made it so that i could turn the engine off with the key switch, otherwise the engine kept running with the swich off or on. You mentioned that the amp and volt rates i gave in my original message were normal for the delco alternator. Are those numbers not good if you have a battery in good condition? I'm just wondering if maybe i did do the job right. I dont hink there is a short because i haven't seen any smoke or spark. Thnk you for yor help again Drew!

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Drew / Millington, MI

07-20-2000 01:55:51




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 12 volt conv. problems in reply to kevin, 07-17-2000 18:27:58  
Mike is correct about checking the battery. It could be the alternator. With a discharged battery (good battery) 14v-15v should be max. I'm going to check with the field service guys today about the alternator. If you have solved the problem, please post what you did. Thanks.



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