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6v to 12v...why?

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Alan Morris

02-01-2002 20:35:02




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Guys, I am new to this so excuse my ignorance...why change from 6v to 12v? I have an 860 I am restoring and would like to make this change now if it is a necessity. Thanks...Alan




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Don M

02-04-2002 06:29:25




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 Re: 6v to 12v...why? in reply to Alan Morris, 02-01-2002 20:35:02  
Hi Alan,
All good reasons for change or not. I have an 850 & an 641 both with 6v systems. When I bought the 641 the lights didn't work so I asked to have them repaired. It had a 12v alternator. They found the alternator was bad so when I went to pick up the tractor the New Holland garage had converted the tractor back to 6v with generator and the lights worked! I have a 6/12v charger and am pleased with the systems. The tractors start fine in the PA winters so I haven't seen a need to convert to 12v. Don

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tlak

02-02-2002 14:07:51




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 Re: 6v to 12v...why? in reply to Alan Morris, 02-01-2002 20:35:02  
I dont think 12V conversions are done to mask other problems. I think a 6V system is more time consuming and expensive to maintain. When mine was 6V I owned a total of one 6V battery of all my vehicles and had to get a charger that handled 6V. Ive had my generator rebuild for $50 and bought a regulator for $25, then converted for less than $50.



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hgs

02-02-2002 19:08:37




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 Re: Re: 6v to 12v...why? in reply to tlak, 02-02-2002 14:07:51  
I think the 6 to 12 convertion is a bandwagon move. Everyone else is doing it, so they think they have to. They also convert because the 6 volt system is too complicated for them to trouble shoot. If all components and connections are good, 6 volt will start and charge at -20 F. It also helps to run an oil like 10W-30 or 15W-40.



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Dave G

02-02-2002 20:04:03




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 Re: Re: Re: 6v to 12v...why? in reply to hgs, 02-02-2002 19:08:37  
No - there are good engineering reasons to go to 12V. It was a bad idea to begin with and that is why we are at 12V and will go higher in the future (28 or 42V).



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raytasch

02-03-2002 04:28:56




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 6v to 12v...why? in reply to Dave G, 02-02-2002 20:04:03  
I agree that more voltage is better and know the values thereof. I question the 6 v being "a bad idea to begin with". Shucks, I thought it was state of the art when these things were designed--1930s. Hadn't been but a couple of years we were hand cranking the old beasts.
ray



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raytasch

02-02-2002 06:05:08




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 Re: 6v to 12v...why? in reply to Alan Morris, 02-01-2002 20:35:02  
Alan, I think most conversions are probably done to mask other problems, such as hard starting. If you want to bring the tractor up to current 'standards' on a working tractor go for it. Another reason to consider an update would be the neccesity to rebuild or replace your existing non operative generator based charging system. Another reason for conversion could be wanting to run some 12v accessories such as a pump. 12v lighting is superior, IMO. If you are going to show the tractor, forget it. The purests will chuckle and shake their heads.
A properly maintained 6v system is satisfactory for these old tractors. I have an 850 that was converted when I bought it. Works great. I have an 8N and a Jub that will remain 6v. They both work great also.
Hope this helps with your decision.
ray

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Dave G

02-02-2002 04:45:25




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 Re: 6v to 12v...why? in reply to Alan Morris, 02-01-2002 20:35:02  
It is not necessary to convert to 12V. If it was mine I would though. The 12V system is more robust. By "robust" I mean that the maintenance of all the connections is not as critical. Using Ohm's Law the voltage drop at each connection is the current X the resistance. With a 6V system the current draw is 2 times that of a 12V system. This means the voltage drop at all those corroded connections is twice that of a 12V. So if you start with only a 6V battery and have twice the voltage drops throughout your system = not as "robust" as a 12V system. Also, 12V stuff (batteries, lights, accessories, etc.) is more available. However, if you want to keep it original, that would be a vote for 6V.

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paul

02-01-2002 23:37:39




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 Re: 6v to 12v...why? in reply to Alan Morris, 02-01-2002 20:35:02  
Some folks have trouble starting their tractors in cold weather on 6 volts. Some folks don't like to pay $60-100 to rebuild the generator. Some folks need 12 volt power for some application (sprayer, pump, trailer brakes, whatever). All good reasons.

Me, I live in Minnesota & have my 4 old tractors all on 6 volts. Start fine at 0 degrees. You need a good battery, need to make _sure_ all your connections are clean & good. And make sure you are using thick 6 volt cable, not the wimpy 12 volt leads.

6 volts doesn't have much 'push' behind it, so you need those connections on both ends of the cables clean & tight. The starter will draw about double the amps on 6 volt, so you need thick cables.

So, I wouldn't see a reason to change yours to 12 volts, but it's up to you.

--->Paul

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Mike

02-02-2002 05:18:11




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 Re: Re: 6v to 12v...why? in reply to paul, 02-01-2002 23:37:39  
Alan and paul,
I would recommend going to as large a cable as possible, I have #1s on all my 6 volt tractors. The larger cable definitely makes for easier current travel. I use #2 cable on all my 12 volt tractors, again to ease the current travel.
I can remember back when I was in auto repair tech school the arguement among the instructors as to whether or not 12 volt systems were going to last or was everyone going to revert back to 6 volt systems.
Mike

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Don, Luling LA

02-01-2002 23:21:11




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 Re: 6v to 12v...why? in reply to Alan Morris, 02-01-2002 20:35:02  
If it all works as it is now no need to change it. Just keep it, especially if you want to keep the tractor original. The altenator is much more reliable than that generator, and the 12 volts will crank the tractor a bit better with out putting so many amps to the starter. You won't need a voltage regulator if you get the altenator with built in regulator which these days most are. You will need to get a ballast resistor to lower the voltage to your coil or change to a 12 volt coil, to keep from cooking it. If you have lights on the tractor you will need to change to a 12V bulb or they won't last long.
I have the one wire 12V altenator on my 860 and it does fine, no complaints, if it bites the dust it can be easily rebuilt and the parts are available from any parts store. Up to you. Good luck either way.

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Don, Luling LA

02-01-2002 23:20:51




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 Re: 6v to 12v...why? in reply to Alan Morris, 02-01-2002 20:35:02  
If it all works as it is now no need to change it. Just keep it, especially if you want to keep the tractor original. The altenator is much more reliable than that generator, and the 12 volts will crank the tractor a bit better with out putting so many amps to the starter. You won't need a voltage regulator if you get the altenator with built in regulator which these days most are. You will need to get a ballast resistor to lower the voltage to your coil or change to a 12 volt coil, to keep from cooking it. If you have lights on the tractor you will need to change to a 12V bulb or they won't last long.
I have the one wire 12V altenator on my 860 and it does fine, no complaints, if it bites the dust it can be easily rebuilt and the parts are available from any parts store. Up to you. Good luck either way.

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