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4500 Backhoe Diesel Detonation Problem

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Rodger

09-16-2002 06:56:10




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I recently rebuilt my 201 cid 3 cyl diesel motor with the C.A.V. injection pump. Motor was bored .40 over and the block was decked, no head work other then relapped the values and new seals. Pistons were shaved a few thousands for proper clearance above the block. New Ford pistons,rings,wrist pins,bearings,exc. The motor runs great, starts right up but under extreme load such as a high gear climbing a steep grade I get some detonation if I get into the throttle hard. I have adjusted the pump timing to where I have minimized the issue but I can still get some detonation. Any thoughts regarding how to correct this problem or is it a problem if it is only occasional.. Thanks, Rodger

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Phil Munson

09-17-2002 10:20:09




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 Re: 4500 Backhoe Diesel Detonation Problem in reply to Rodger, 09-16-2002 06:56:10  
If your injectors are not up to snuff they could be popping at a few hundred pounds premature due to fatigue, old age, and or dirt or other corruption. This would essentially advance the timing, and be much more noticeable under load.With the rest of your engine rebuilt and up to snuff it would be more noticeable.



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gatractorman

09-17-2002 03:45:14




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 Re: 4500 Backhoe Diesel Detonation Problem in reply to Rodger, 09-16-2002 06:56:10  
Had a friend of mine rebuilt a 4000 Ford engine (diesel) and for some reason I dont remember he replaced the inj. pump drive gear, it would start immediately and run smooth until you rev it up then it would smoke and knock, he asked me to check the timing for him and it was on the money, come to find out the new gear he put on was marked one tooth off, we removed it and turned it a tooth then reset timing at inj. pump cured all problems.

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Texadian

09-16-2002 15:29:11




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 Re: 4500 Backhoe Diesel Detonation Problem in reply to Rodger, 09-16-2002 06:56:10  
Here's my .02c on your concerns about excessive detonation:
1. It may be normal, the 201 non-turbo engine has substantial "diesel knock" under load. Can you compare it to another 201? 4000, 4600 Ag tractors, 450, 545.... industrials. 2. I agree with Bill - it may be advancing too much. There's an advance piston crosswise across the bottom of the injection pump. Fuel pressure from the vane pump pushes this advance piston against two precisely shimmed springs, fuel pressure increases as the engine speed increases. Maybe one of the springs is broken or weak. 3. Maybe you can beg, borrow or steal a timing light; it uses a clip on the No. 1 high pressure injector line (scrape the paint off) to sense fuel delivery and a strobe light to flash the timing marks on the front of the flywheel. Timing should be about 20 degrees BTDC at idle, 28 at full speed. 4. When you shaved the pistons, you should end up with about 0.012 inches of piston protrusion above the block.

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Bill

09-16-2002 10:49:19




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 Re: 4500 Backhoe Diesel Detonation Problem in reply to Rodger, 09-16-2002 06:56:10  
Puzzled?? diesels can only fire when the fuel is injected.. so sounds like its over advancing..

retarding the timing is a fix but could cause lowend problems... if still starting quickly and not smoking at idle, your ok.. but the cause is still out there..

either the gear is not timed correctly on that model, (see manual due to gear placement and pump drive gear adjustment),

pump is not timed correctly,(static marks)

or the pump has too much advance internally set..(cause for having pump rebuilt at $600 or more.)

because of recent engine work, i would check the gear/static again... could be a tooth off, or need to set the pump gear adjustment for the cav type pumps...

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Rodger

09-16-2002 12:31:28




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 Re: Re: 4500 Backhoe Diesel Detonation Problem in reply to Bill, 09-16-2002 10:49:19  
Bill, I was real careful when I set the timing marks and checked it half a dozen times before slapping the cover on. I have adjusted the timing both before and after, either way too much seems to make the knocking worse. It knocks the least when set about 3 degrees before the "o" seting on the cover plate. Now again it runs great and starts great it only knocks when I push it really hard under heavy load. Do you think slightly clogged injectors could cause this condition ?? Rodger

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Bill

09-16-2002 18:29:28




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 Re: Re: Re: 4500 Backhoe Diesel Detonation Problem in reply to Rodger, 09-16-2002 12:31:28  
ok,, too cold engine.. bad thermostat,, not at atleast 160f..

oil leaking into manifold or combustion chamber

clogged or stuck needle in injectors

dirty injectors

bad injector pump...

assuming its not an bad wristpin, rod, or piston slap..



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