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Battery not charging

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aaron

02-05-2003 12:00:43




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this is the second part to a previous question. ive checked the battery with a volt meter after starting and it dosent read any higher than it reads before starting. if the voltage regulator is bad, can it cause the battery to not charge?




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Phil (VA)

02-07-2003 13:49:38




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 Re: battery not charging in reply to aaron, 02-05-2003 12:00:43  
Assuming 12 volts, I typically get about 13 volts on voltmeter across good battery when not running and maybe 14.2 volts when running, if charging system is working properly. Problem is usually, not always, with either generator/alternator or voltage regulator and my experience is about equal as to which. If you are not handy with meters, you can take both to good auto electrical shop and they will troubleshoot and fix whichever is bad and you will not waste money and time where not needed. Again, all assuming battery is good, no dead cells.

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TomG

02-07-2003 02:36:45




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 Re: battery not charging in reply to aaron, 02-05-2003 12:00:43  
I'm a day late with this, and I haven't seen the first part of the question. Might help anyway.

I'm not sure what voltage readings on a battery actually tell. The tests I know, at least on alternator charging systems, require a load tester. A load tester places a load on the charging system close to an alternator's rated output and then measures both the alternator voltage and current output under those conditions. A charging system's performance can't really be determined unless the system is under a high load. There are a bunch of tests for both the alternator and regulator if the alternator output tests fail.

However, I'd start by ensuring a good battery and low resistance in the battery terminals and cables. A battery capacity test with a hydrometer should be taken and all battery terminals and cables (including the chassis end of the ground cable) should be inspected and cleaned.

I'm not completely certain yet but a cracked battery cable end and some dirty terminals may be the explanation for a starter problem I have rather than a bad solenoid. It's good practice to clean everything periodically. High resistance in the wiring certainly will keep a battery from charging as will a bad battery. Bad batteries can have good voltage readings.

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Gary Schafer

02-07-2003 18:38:11




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 Re: Re: battery not charging in reply to TomG, 02-07-2003 02:36:45  
You can tell a lot about the electrical system with a digital voltmeter. The thing that is most important when checking charging voltages is to make sure that it is measured ON THE BATTERY TERMINALS. MEASURE RIGHT ON THE BATTERY POSTS. Measuring on the battery cable connectors can give false readings if there is a poor connection of the cable terminal.

There should be 14.2 or a little above volts on the battery terminals when charging. If you see less than that, check the voltage on the battery cables. If there is a poor battery connection you will see a higher (or your needed 14.2 volts) on the cables. If there is a difference it is a clear indication that you need to clean the battery connections.

If you have lights or other accessories that can be turned on, do so and see if the alternator/generator still maintains the 14.2 volts charging voltage. If it does that is a pretty good indication that the charging system is doing what it is supposed to do. The only time it might not is if the battery is real low and the alternator is already putting out lots of current trying to charge the battery. Check it again after it has run for awhile to see if the voltage has come up to the required amount.

Of course testing it with a load system is a good thing to do to find out if there any open diodes or other problems that would not allow full output, but most of us don't have access to that equipment.

Checking battery voltage drop during starter engagement can tell a lot too. If the battery voltage dives way down to only a couple of volts it is a good chance you have a bad battery. If the battery voltage holds to around 8 to 10 volts or more when starting, watch the voltage at the starter terminals. If there is a much greater voltage drop at the starter, you may have bad connections at the battery or on one of there other cable connections.

The first thing that should be done if you suspect battery / charging / starting problems is to clean the connections. Remove and clean the battery terminals themselves and the cable terminals. Buy one of those little battery terminal cleaning brushes. Well worth the few bucks they cost. If you don't have one take a knife and scrape the post all the way around until you have shiny lead on the whole surface. Do the same with the cable ends. They must be shiny clean.

The other ends of the battery cables can sometimes be the culprit too. Take them off and scrape / wire brush them shiny clean too. It is amazing how a little corrosion can cause problems. Even though you may have the connection tight, if it is dirty it may not make good connection under high current loads.

On 6 volt systems good connections and proper size cables are even more important than on the 12 volt systems.

Regards
Gary

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TomG

02-08-2003 03:07:17




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 Re: Re: Re: battery not charging in reply to Gary Schafer, 02-07-2003 18:38:11  
Good post! All true and all are things I've done over the years. I've also used my digital VOM to measure battery back-drain on alternator systems to check for diodes that are starting to breakdown.

My only comment is that these checks aren't entirely conclusive and I have found myself testing around in circles. The good thing about the formal procedures with a load tester is that they give a decision-tree that identifies an exact problem quickly--run the first test; if it passes go to the next one; if fails run a different test etc.

The poor man's load tester for cars is just turning on all the accessories, but most tractors only have lighting, which isn't enough of a load.

Tests for my 35W-rated alternator takes a 30A load. The load would be created through about .5 ohm and would generate around 420W. An expensive load tester uses a variable carbon pile. My lights (including aux work lights) give me about half of that. I suppose that using a cigarette lighter car accessory like an air pump would get me into the ballpark. In the past I've thought about rigging up a series parallel network of 110V light bulbs for a load but the resistance of light bulbs changes when they heat up.

Anyway, the load test thing can be done without an expensive shop tester, but of course it would be best if the problem was found with the checks you describe. As we've both said, you have to start by knowing that the battery and wiring are good.

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Richard C. Rose

02-08-2003 15:37:31




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: battery not charging in reply to TomG, 02-08-2003 03:07:17  
Don't lose sight of the fact we're dealing with a generator/regulator system here.
Richard



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Jerry D in NC

02-06-2003 03:00:34




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 Re: battery not charging in reply to aaron, 02-05-2003 12:00:43  
Aaron,
There are several things that can make a charging circuit not work. Starting out replacing things without knowing what the problem is is a great way to waste money. You have the Lucas regulator which is expensive but can frequently be fixed. I would have sent you a .pdf to help your troubleshooting if you are handy with a voltmeter but I don't have your email address.



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Richard C. Rose

02-06-2003 01:48:51




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 Re: battery not charging in reply to aaron, 02-05-2003 12:00:43  
Yes



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