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3500 TLB Injection Pump

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Duane-AZ

06-30-2003 13:30:48

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I have a 1967 Ford 3500 industrial tractor loader backhoe with a 3 cylinder diesel engine in it. It normally starts like a chap on the first crank, unless it's cold and the battery is weak.

I ran my backhoe last week for several hours, parked it, and let it set two days. Went to start it and it is now getting no fuel.

The tank is better than 1/2 full.

Here's what I've done so far:
1.changed the fuel filters, they were dirty, but not completely plugged.
2.bled the fuel filters
3.bled the injector pump.
4.loosened the injector lines at the top of the injector pump to attempt to bleed them.

I'm getting fuel up to the injector bleed screw, but nothing at the fuel lines coming out.
I didn't have any unusual signs of the injector pump failing (i.e. no big noises or anything).

Help. What should I do next? Any ideas on what the problem might be? I'm building a house, and reallly need to get back running.

thanks,
Duane in Prescott, AZ

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Duane

08-11-2003 14:27:54

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Re: 3500 TLB Injection Pump in reply to Duane-AZ, 06-30-2003 13:30:48

I put the new lift pump on and it didn't solve the problem. I'm not getting any fuel through the injection pump. I had a friend remove the injection pump for me. now I need to find a repair shop. Had a guy in Phoenix, AZ qoute me a price range of $700 to $1,000. ouch.

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Duane

07-11-2003 20:53:39

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Re: 3500 TLB Injection Pump in reply to Duane-AZ, 06-30-2003 13:30:48

Just a quick update. I pulled the lift pump and ordered a new one. I operated the old one by hand and it seemed to be working fine, but I figured it's best to replace it.

I also cranked the engine and good news, the injector pump cam shaft is intact and turning.

I'll follow up when I get the new lift pump installed.

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Duane

07-06-2003 14:27:10

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Re: 3500 TLB Injection Pump in reply to Duane-AZ, 06-30-2003 13:30:48

It appears to be the Injector pump. I'll have to pull it off to verify. I held my finger over the output of the injector pump and there was zero pressure and no fuel coming out as we cranked. I gently held a piece of wire in the hole, resting it on the top of the pistion inside, and it didn't move at all when we cranked the engine.

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Rod

07-06-2003 19:36:28

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Re: Re: 3500 TLB Injection Pump in reply to Duane, 07-06-2003 14:27:10

IS this pump an inline type Simms pump, or CAV's DPA rotary? I had previously assumed the latter. If you have the Simms pump, it can be hand primed on the lift pump, which is located on the side of the injection pump. If there is no flow through the pump, the lift pump could be the problem.
Rod

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Duane

07-07-2003 08:59:41

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Re: Re: Re: 3500 TLB Injection Pump in reply to Rod, 07-06-2003 19:36:28

Hey Rod,

It's a Simms 3 cyl in-line pump. I've operated the manual prime lever and am able to get fuel to come out the bleed screw on the side of the injection pump. but nothing is coming out the top of the pump where the injection lines go to the injectors. I have a feeling I've got a gear tooth missing or something like that.

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Rod

07-07-2003 09:23:18

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Re: Re: Re: Re: 3500 TLB Injection Pump in reply to Duane, 07-07-2003 08:59:41

Well,now that's a start. The Simms is a pretty simple pump, and quite reliable. I doubt a broken gear, but I could be wrong. More likely a lift pump problem. Can you pull the fill plug or level plug and look inside to see if the pump cam is turning. Even take the lift pump off and look in the hole and you will see the cam. Lift pumps were common failures. If you want, you should be able to unbolt the access cover in front of the pump to look at the gears (has six or eight bolts), but I would really look at the lift pump first. Take it off, it's likely bad, you can see the cam turn over, and it's a lot easier. Sometimes those injector pumps will break plunger springs, but that won't stop the fuel. And don't unscrew the delivery valves on the pump where the lines hook on. Affects time a small bit, will run rough.
Good luck, keep me posted.
Rod

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Duane

07-07-2003 09:32:21

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 3500 TLB Injection Pump in reply to Rod, 07-07-2003 09:23:18

Rod,

I've got some neighbors coming over today to check it out. One of them has a reputation for being a pretty good tractor mechanic. I sure hope you're right on the lift pump. Boy howdy, that would be a lot cheaper to deal with.

I'll let you know what we find.

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Duane

07-08-2003 21:48:53

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 3500 TLB Injection Pump in reply to Duane, 07-07-2003 09:32:21

The neighbor said he thinks it's the lift pump. Great news for me since that's the cheapest and easiest to fix. I'll post an update after I get a new one installed.

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Duane

07-02-2003 11:38:27

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Re: 3500 TLB Injection Pump in reply to Duane-AZ, 06-30-2003 13:30:48

Does anyone out there know how to inspect to see if I've chipped a drive gear tooth without removing the injector pump?

I'm Puzzled and really need my loader to bury some trenches I've dug.

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RickB.

06-30-2003 14:27:39

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Re: 3500 TLB Injection Pump in reply to Duane-AZ, 06-30-2003 13:30:48

Take the bleed screw completely out of the pump. If it won't pump fuel out all over the front tire when cranking, you have a fuel supply problem or a problem inside the injection pump. If you have done all you say you have correctly, you have a bad internal transfer pump or other pump issues. Best to recheck all else before condemning the injection pump.

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Duane-AZ

06-30-2003 15:14:35

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Re: Re: 3500 TLB Injection Pump in reply to RickB., 06-30-2003 14:27:39

Is there anything behind that bleed screw on the injection pump that I need to be careful not to lose, like a spring or ball...?

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RickB.

06-30-2003 17:22:49

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Re: Re: Re: 3500 TLB Injection Pump in reply to Duane-AZ, 06-30-2003 15:14:35

No. just don't drop the darn thing, or cross-thread it when you put it back in.

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Duane

07-02-2003 11:26:18

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Re: Re: Re: Re: 3500 TLB Injection Pump in reply to RickB., 06-30-2003 17:22:49

Hey Rick,

I pulled the bleed screw out and cranked the tractor. Plenty of fuel flowing out and a few (not many at all) air bubbles. Put the bleed screw back in, and still no fix. Still not getting any fuel at the injector lines. I'm going to pull the lines tonight and see if they're obstructed.

Is there any possibility that the fuel shut off valve in the injector pump is stuck closed? The arm/lever operates freely, but could it be broken internally, and still be cutting the fuel supply?

Anybody out there have an exploded diagram of these inline injector pumps?

thanks,
Duane

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rod

07-02-2003 20:27:50

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 3500 TLB Injection Pump in reply to Duane, 07-02-2003 11:26:18

There are various springs and levers that could be broken in the pump, or plungers stuck etc. Make sure there is no air coming out the bleed screw. Loosen it a turn or so, and with the engine stop out, crank over until the bleeder is free of air. If you still get air, there is a leak, or obstrucion somewhere towards the tank. If it is free of air, close the screw, push the stop control in, set the throttle about half, and loosen all the lines at the injectors. Now crank until is starts spitting fuel. It may take a minute or two. (Don't crank too long at once or it will burn the starter.) If there is still no fuel, then it is possible that the pump is the source of the problem. If you have another tractor to tow it around, that can help. They can sometimes be difficult to bleed. I once had an air leak on the line between the pump and filter, with much the same problems you describe.
Rod

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Duane

07-03-2003 11:06:49

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 3500 TLB Injection Pump in reply to rod, 07-02-2003 20:27:50

I'll look over the lines carefully for leaks. I'm hoping the injector pump is okay... I just called the Ford/New Holland Dealer, they don't service these as a whole unit any more. and they can get limited parts for it.

I'm trying to avoid removing the injector pump until I absolutely have to. It sounds like a mess.. gotta drain the coolant and remove the lower radiator hose amongst other things.

I suspect I may have an obstruction inside the injection pump. Any idea how to check this and clean it out?

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Rod

07-03-2003 20:49:14

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 3500 TLB Injection Pum in reply to Duane, 07-03-2003 11:06:49

Pump is not hard to get off. As you say NH does not service the pump, and I doubt they ever did. Any injection supply house can do this. Do not open the pump yourself. It is a trade unto itself, and should be done in a controlled atmosphere "clean room". Having a mechanic out for a look would likely be money well spent before taking the pump off. Just my opinion.

rod

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Rodger

07-01-2003 13:47:01

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Re: Re: Re: Re: 3500 TLB Injection Pump in reply to RickB., 06-30-2003 17:22:49

Duane, Did you pull the petcock (messy) out of the bottom of the tank, the pick-up on mind has a screen on it that clogged many times when I first bought the machine? You should drain and clean the tank anyway at this point. The sludge from the fuel settles to the bottom and then clogs the pick-up. Rodger

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Duane

07-02-2003 11:21:49

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 3500 TLB Injection Pump in reply to Rodger, 07-01-2003 13:47:01

Hi Rodger,

I haven't pulled the petcock yet. The fuel seems to be flowing pretty freely from the tank. I'll keep it in mind as I run through my process of elimination. My next step is to pull the injector lines and see if they're plugged or not. Thanks

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