Hey Mark-- More starter info Please!

2. YES, only when past the RUN position which I call START position.

3.NO. You have some other wiring connected to the START position of your ignition switch, or you have wiring off your solenoid hot post going somewhere else and somehow it gets back to 12v via the ignition sw. being in the RUN position.

Light wiring: You said that a wire comes from the battery (independent of igniting sw.) and goes to a separate switch. From that switch you go directly to your lights. This means your lights can be on regardless of your ignition positon. That's ok if that is the way you want it. Lights not working is a totally separate problems in your case if I understand you correctly. You could jump your light switch and see if they come on ,could check for 12v at the light with the switch on or jumpered across. If you have 12v at the light your ground is bad. Most lights ground thru the mounting bracket to tin which is bolted to frame and that is where the batt return is connected.

12v lights run somewhere around 6 amps. If you only have 2 headlights and 1 implement light that's 18 amps @ 12v. Go to your NAPA dealer and tell him what I just said and tell him you want a heavy duty headlight switch. 30 amps should work.

Back to ignition/start.

The headlight wiring picking off 12v on the input to the ignition sw is probably not a concern. Since you are using it as a junction terminal, not a switch that interrupts current.

I think it just hit me what's wrong. Your ignition switch fried and put 12v on the START positon when you were in the RUN position. This caused your starter to run continuously while you were operating the tractor (because you said you have 12v at the starter in the RUN position and there is only one wire from the START position to the starting solenoid.) After a few minutes, this continuous running burned out your starter brushes or wiring and now you have an open circuit and no rotating starter.

3 problems. Light switch (open contacts), ignition switch (shorted, RUN to START) and starter (open ckt). To verify what I said, turn the key off and measure the resistance between where the 12v wire goes into the starter and chassis. You should have an open ckt if the starter is fried.

Want more ask.

Mark

We're making progress.

You need to go two places and measure resistance with your ohmmeter. Before doing the tests, touch your ohmmeter leads together and record the resistance reading (of the leads)which will be on the order of 0.5 ohms.

1. Scrape the paint off the starter housing, preferably the round center part, not the end cap or end plate, and the tractor chassis, . Measure your resistance between these two points. Your meter reading shouldn't be more than 0.6 or 0.7 ohms; that's 0.2 ohms of ckt resistance and the 0.5 ohms of meter lead resistance which doesn't matter. According to Ohm's law, if you tried to start your tractor and the starter wanted 200 amperes to turn, 200 amperes x your 0.2 ohms is 40 volts. Well your battery only puts out 12 so you are 28volts short of being able to spin your starter. See, good leads and clean connections make a whopping big difference.

2. Now go to your battery and touch the center of the neg batt terminal (the round lead part, not the cable connector). Now go to your scratched off tractor chassis spot and measure resistance again. Same rule applies. Any resistance at all is a killer.
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When you took a batt cable from the batt hot lead and touched the starter input terminal (with the ohm test showing continuity) you just corrected a lot of potential sins. You identified the fact that you don't have a sufficient circuit ground path assuming the batt it'self isn't bad. Just because you can read 12 v across it doesn't mean it will put out 200-300 amps to crank your engine. Might want to take it out and take it to AutoZone or Wallyworld and get it load checked.

While it's out is a good time to check all your connections (both + and -), your ground cables, batt term post starter to tractor mounting surfaces and all for corrosion or loose connection. You are going to find your answer in one of those places.

The lights. With a separate switch you don't need a remote high current relay (I mentioned) as you can buy a switch with adequate current rating and it is not congested (heat buildup) like could happen in a multifunction ignition switch.

Coming from the term marked BATT (at the ignition sw) should be ok as you are just using that for a junction..... lot different from actually switching current on and off like the separate switch will have to do. Again, jump across your existing light switch to insure that your lights work. Otherwise, the switch may be ok and your problem is ground there too.

Stay in touch

txblu

When you've finished with the previous answer, we still need to address the 12v on the START terminal when the switch is in the RUN position. You may have something funny going on with a safety switch on the tranny that could confuse me.

By the way, what make (assume Ford), model, and approx year is your tractor?

txblu

But, in the mean time. Now that I know your tractor series, I am confused about something. My 1000 series blue is supposed to be just like your 100 series red and gray, except for the paint.

The 4 speed transmission on my 2000 (600 series copy) and 4000 (800 series copy)have a starting safety switch mounted in the cover of the transmission. You can't miss it. There are three things in the cover: gear shift lever, fill plug, and this switch.

With the key on, 12v is applied to the starter solenoid (small terminal)regardless of whether you want to start or not. The low side of this primary circuit (inside the sole. housing) connects to a second small terminal. You will initially measure 12v on that one too....that is until you depress that switch on top of the tranny. That grounds the primary ckt.low side putting 12v ACROSS the primary (starting) coil and the solenoid energizes sending batt voltage to the starter hot terminal.

That switch forces you to have the transmission in neutral to start the tractor.

In this setup, they only use a single pole single throw switch (SPST) and it is either ON or OFF. There is no START positon, just OFF and ON. The ignition switch sends 12v to everything in the ON position. So ignition gets juice, your light switch can get juice (unless it is wired to the 12v input to this switch which allows lights with the ign. key off as you mentioned)and you have juice to your starter solenoid (but no ground until you want it via the transmission safety switch). If you have a key switch with a start position, someone has slipped you a "mickey".

With this setup, you don't have 12v to the sole. until you put the ign sw in START plus you still have the tranny switch open so you have to hold the START and push down on the safety sw to get juice to the starter....unless someone wired around your safety switch when they installed the key start switch.

Let me know.

But that still doesn't explain why, when you jumped from the batt hot term directly to the starter hot term with a batt hookup wire (biggun) nothing happened. But we'll get there. This is like a Mickey Spilane mystery. Still think there are 2 foxes to chase.

Mark (er ah txblu)

The meter. I am almost deaf so I usually don't hear the tone so I pay attention to the dial reading. Since the meter has a 10 megohm impedance or thereabouts, any electrical disturbance could interfere with the correct reading. The fact that you were ohming out battery ckts could be the reason for the erroneous reading in that there could have been a low leakage current in your tractor and multiplied by 10 meg makes volts in a hurry. Ohmeters don't like volts when they are trying to supply the voltage for the ohm reading.

As to your question about other things. I'd insure that both batt terminals (the lead post of the battery) and their lead cable counterparts are nice and shiny also. While you're at it you can go to the solenoid and the starter hot and shine them all tool.

As to why it worked and then quit, beats me. The only thing I can think of is the corrosion was doing it's damage and while you were using the tractor the last time you used it, your generator finished it off while charging your battery.

I am glad we have a common thread in that the bad ground answered both questions (ign and lights). Seldom do you have 2 things go out simultaneously unless one is down hill from the other.

Lastly, I am assuming that you have a basic ON OFF switch now and you have to use your transmission safety switch to start your tractor. If not we need to talk some more as YOU MUST HAVE THAT SAFETY SWITCH PERIOD. Your health and maybe your life depends on it.

Mark

I tried all weekend to get into the site and it was down. This is Monday am, my first opportunithy to respond to you since Friday.

Ign switch.

Current condition: Your ignition hot lead (BATT) probably comes from your solenoid large terminal that is connected to the battery. Your RUN terminal operates everything but your starter. Your START terminal goes to a small terminal on your starting solenoid (primary ckt). Your primary ckt gets ground within the solenoid via it's mounting to the tractor chassis or something that connects to the chassis.

New concept: You have 2 things to do.

1. Remove the lead off the START term and put it on the RUN term of your switch. You will no longer use the START position.

2. Break out the ground for the primary solenoid ckt and run that wire over to the terminal on the side of the start switch (on top of the tranny).
You may need to purchase a 4 terminal solenoid to do this. What you will have now is a hot solenoid when you turn the key one click to RUN but the tractor will not try to start. You will measure 12v on both small terminals and at the terminal on the side of the tranny switch. But when you put the tranny in neutral, you can push the tranny switch down and it shorts this sole wire to the tractor chassis and the sloe clicks closed and the starter turns. Release the tranny sw. and you're done.

NAPA has these solenoids but be sure you take your ohmmeter with you. Ohm out both small terminals to the case of the solenoid. Neither shall be shorted to it. If one is, they are trying to sell you the wrong unit. Look in their catalog yourself at the wiring diagram if you have to. I had to go thru this process when I bought my last one. If you get one shorted to the case, you are buying what you already have and it not only bypasses your tranny switch, but if you wire up the ign sw the way I said, your sole will have your starter turning as long as the key is on. Definitely don't want that.

Lets start over as we are running out of Re: room. Hey txblu..... ..... .is ok to get my attention.

txblu